IC ALL

Mod note:

It's APC policy to not close threads outside a TOS violation. We don't close threads for user convenience. Other users besides the OP have made comments and those comments deserve to be heard.

OP's can edit their posts. Outside of that, one should think twice before they hit the send button....

Avg Joe

I agree. The merits of the OP's suggestion were debated with civility and in a respectful tone.

Contrary to AW's assertion that this thread somehow damages "unity" I believe it has helped to dispel some falsely held beliefs regarding the scope of a union. I have great sympathy for those potentially facing furlough but believe it is a disservice to give false hope. Eventually the limitations of a union are revealed and the disappointment begets hurt, frustration, anger, feelings of abandonment, and thoughts of revenge. Not only are these emotions directed toward the employer, but now the target becomes the "union" for providing the early false hope. The kicker is that it wasn't the "union" providing the false hope, just a well-intentioned individual but this subtlety will be lost amid the frustration and anger and the target will be the union.


Joe

Charlie Murphy

The anger will be directed at the union because the members of the union have the means and capability to reasonably take care of those furloughed. Instead, those of us that remain on property don't want the contract touched while those on the street lose what little they have after struggling through probation. But hey, at least we won't be picking up overtime.

The more I read about wanting to make a donation voluntary, the more I'm inclined to give the company a reduction in guarantee to keep furloughees on property. A voluntary donation will run strong for 3 months and then will continue to operate at around 30%.

Or maybe I'll pick up all of the overtime I can on the premise that I'll donate 25% of all overage to the furloughed pilots. Just think how much I could help.

b2pilot186

...and keep 75% for yourself. Wow, there hasn't even been a voluntary donation started yet and you're already below your 30% estimated giving rate. All this while violating a possible future open time ban too. Quite the altruist...how about having some faith in your union brothers and sisters?

B2P

Commando

Charlie Murphy, How pilots does UAL have on Furlough? 600 going to 900 plus. How many at AMR? Over a thousand. Pick your airline with guys on the street. How many force the membership to pay $ to Furloughees? ZERO! Medical coverage maybe, salary-ain't happening.

This is the way Airlines work. It's called Seniority. It's been this way since your mommy and daddy were born. It aint going to change. We all know/knew the system.

It sucks, but it is what it is. I don't know what has started this, Obama? The New PC of America? But to blame a Union is idiotic. Hopefully we wont furlough, but I'm not going to touch our Contract one cent.

JRT123

[QUOTE=Commando;574797]

This is the way Airlines work. It's called Seniority. It's been this way since your mommy and daddy were born. It aint going to change. We all know/knew the system.

It sucks, but it is what it is. "

That's right, for how long have the airlines been furloughing ......? Humm, over thirty years!!!! You guys can't tell me you didn't know your career in aviation was cyclical. Wake up and get real.

Charlie Murphy

It was sarcasm, hence the sarcasm smiley at the end of the post. Maybe I should have spelled it out.

Charlie Murphy

If you are going to use AMR and UAL as your example, please tell the whole story. How much in concessions have they taken at UAL and AMR to keep guys on property? Pick your airline with guys on the street?

I'm not about to give concessions to the contract either. But I think it's pretty crappy that we tell a furloughed guy, "Good luck out there" while those on property soldier on business as usual, sans opentime. My hope is that we have the ability to think outside the box and be innovative as a union taking care of its members versus doing what everyone else has done that clearly has a poor track record.

But, I get it. Juniority sucks.

congowings

Being junior has always been that way - the worse domicile, the least desirable equipment, the worse lines, the worse reserve and the left overs of a vacation bid, not to mention less vacation time to bid - and of course, the first to go when the company has to downsize. Nothing new.

b2pilot186

I got the sarcasm in your last sentence while you seem to have missed mine. You still should have more faith in your fellow union members...they'll give generously if the worst happens. That part I'm serious about as I know you are about helping out any furloughees. Clear enough?

B2P