LJS,
Out of line...no. Dont read more into it, all of us have to participate. This was set up for all to put their name into the hat. Otherwise it will fail. At the meeting the EB said that if everyone would take a Reduced line we could make the 40 mil. End of story......

 

40 mil is a lot to ask for in 6 months considering we only need 38 mil for all of 2010. A perfect example of why everyone should do something was just posted on the B & G. If we can't come together to prevent 300 furloughs, how are we going to ask for contract improvements in 3 years?

 

If this fails, what happens to those folks who took Military leave? Do they still go? I mean is there away way that the orders are not official in till the person wants to go??

I know I sound stupid. Not sure how it really works

 

The company will enjoy not paying the guys on mil leave even/when they furlough. Each case is different but generally if you seek out orders and volunteer for a deployment you are going.

 

USERRA does not require that you go. Between the individual and their unit. In my case, if doesn't pass, will not go on military since my unit is flexible.
If MOU passes, still under no obligation since DOD can change their plans. You are under no further obligation (again, USERRA). You can return early as well. The MOU military leave only applies to the extra benefits one receives under the MOU program. Normal military rules apply.
If furloughed, USERRA does not require UPS to provide any benefits not required by stautue. If MOU passes, and subsequent furloughed while on Military duty at time of furlough, EB says you would receive MOU benefits for the duration of Military Leave that you took under the MOU.

 

There is a balance of doing your job, going home, enjoying your time off and really putting your head in the sand VS. having an active role in making your job a better place.

Too much of either one would be hard to balance or justify in the long run. There are some on here and that I've met in 2 years that I hope to emulate when it comes to that balance at UPS and the IPA.

I'm bottom 100, so I am biased- I believe this shortfall just proves the balance is a bit on the former rather than the latter IF this doesn't work. It also sets quite a lesson in the playbook of future issues either way it falls.

More folks than the ones that may hit the streets will take a cut in their currently enjoyed lifestyle or life plan. Sure, you can say it's just a subset of the age 65 set back to some, and then economic downturn to all.

This gave YOU the chance to DO something without taking a big hit. Rationalize it any way you wish. I've been forever impressed by what I've seen, in both directions.

Some number chasers think freight totals may be bottoming, I hope that works out for UPS and FEDEX bread and butter lift also.

 

LJS,

Thanks for serving the country, I mean that sincerely.

Ponder this...

What I've seen from my other 3 airline furloughes is a company with tighter grip on our futures.

Growing up in a military/airline family I can totally appreciate your wanting to part of your family's life...however...

If we furlough, and if you're a junior Capt, you will take a pay cut. Some estimate that to be $60,000 to $80,000 a year pay cut not to mention the reduction in contributions to your retirement. In all likelihood that will be a three year downgrade 60K x 3 years = $180K

If you're a line holder that likes the flexibility to trade trips, maybe pick-up a trip, you may be downgraded to reserve. This in itself is a paycut i.e. hotel rooms, crash pad, reduction in per diem and capped out at guarantee.

If you're seniority numbers 2600-2300, pack warm, you may be heading to ANC for at least three years. Yep, the company will have to move you or you can commute. Anytime you move it costs thousands of dollars in unforeseen costs, buy new stuff for the house that you didnt bring up from the last place, re-wardrobe for ANC vs. living in the lower 48, etc. Did I mention the cheap gas in ANC is near $2.70/gal.

I guess my point is, it really doesn't matter what "names" the other crew members call you for your opinion, but the "sticks and stones" the company is going to throw at the pilot group are real.

When you want to open the contract in 2012 and want a raise, why ever would the company even consider it. They were able to show each and everyone of us that we are not united in defending ourselves against them. 75 hour guarantee next time around ? I think the company will have 300 furloughess it will use to negotiatate a lower guarantee and a pay freeze or pay cut. You mentioned you aren't able to take a pay cut for a few bid periods...understandable in my opinion. however, are you ok if the company presents you with a contract in 2012 with a paycut good for the next 5 years ? Or with other concessions ?

When the furloughed 300 return, I know I will only vote yes to any agreement that restores my three lost years of longevity and gives me retro pay for taking an unpaid vacation and a contract with a no-furlough clause. And with over 10% (300 furloughess) of us voting on the contract, I believe it that may be our time to recover from this. Bitterness ? You bet there will be after the furloughees return..and that's exactly what the company wants during contract talks.

Some may say that we will take care of our own thru assessments, well if we can't get anyone to sign up for MOU do ya really think people will pay assessments. At American Airlines, we had the same policy, and we were actually sending guys checks. Some got $100/month, some got $50. Selfish of me, but I'd rather keep my job, than get a check for $50 a month.

How about the statement, "Well we're going to stick it to the company by banning open time and JA assignments". Oh really ? Once again, if we have a general tone of, "screw the junior guy"..what is going to stop guys from picking up time to help restore the paycuts they will take as part of the cascading effect of the furlough. If we cant get participation for the MOU, I'll bet we wont get compliance for the open time ban.

So you're right LJS, no one should insult you about your choice to participate or not. But, as a group, not you personally, but as a group, don't b!tch about how crappy the company is when they have given us all a choice to avoid furlough now and solidify for contract talks in 2012 or we can fracture and be their b!tch.

 

I could be totally wrong here, but I think you are completely right about the bottom 300-600 numbers to be in ANC for 3+ years. When I was hired, they stuck me where the vacancy was, then for the next 2 years any new vacancy was filled with new hires. So if they furlough 300 guys, most will come out of ANC. Then they will send replacements up there, and eventually when they have new vacancies (767 in SDF) they will recall pilots right back to SDF. So now you have the people who got displaced to ANC back in SDF and the ones who got displaced due to a furlough stuck in ANC. What a mess, but I think a big incentive for anyone in the 300-600 from the bottom number.

 

50% there and 20 million raised and well over a thousand IPA pilots participating. I think that sends a strong message of the unity of the group. All that with only 1 of the approximately 300 over 60 guys participating. I mean I guess they can't "afford" a 10 hour give back. I certainly can't expect everyone to participate, but there should be a more representative sample from the group that has been the most fortunate.

 

The IPA EB took a risk of incurring bitterness to try a do something. They could have just told the company to go ahead and lay people off and it would have just been what has been the historical norm when a company has surplus people. What you should remember is that UPS is the one responsible for the layoff, they make the decision, not the IPA or your fellow pilot. If you want to cast a vote that damages the pilots and makes UPS happy its up to you but, you are doing exactly what UPS will want you to do and they will recognize an individual that they can beat on to get the result that they want..
Yes I signed up for something.

If you get laid off I wish you the best