Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Cargo
New Flight Time rules? >

New Flight Time rules?


Notices
Cargo Part 121 cargo airlines

New Flight Time rules?

Old 05-29-2009 | 02:32 PM
  #1  
AerisArmis's Avatar
Thread Starter
Slainge Var'
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 0
From: Zeppelin Tail Gunner
Default New Flight Time rules?

This could get interesting!


European flight time limitations: pilots cheer, airlines howl
By David Learmount
function pr_swfver(){var osf,osfd,i,axo=1,v=0,nv=navigator;if(nv.plugins&&n v.mimeTypes.length){osf=nv.plugins["Shockwave Flash"];if(osf&&osf.description){osfd=osf.description;v=p arseInt(osfd.substring(osfd.indexOf(".")-2))}}else{try{for(i=5;axo!=null;i++){axo=new ActiveXObject("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash."+i); v=i}}catch(e){}}return v;}var pr_d=new Date();pr_d=pr_d.getDay()+"|"+pr_d.getHours()+":"+ pr_d.getMinutes()+"|"+-pr_d.getTimezoneOffset()/60;var pr_redir="http://ad.afy11.net/ad?c=5Nda8vO58EaZ+uzaMm62MbHEYmUBgRez8cX4KxYI2SbVK vDtNKLezVrdyuucuHmZjErBZH+FsZ0tpUr3nrAexA==!$CTURL $";var pr_nua=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var pr_pos="",pr_inif=(window!=top);if(pr_inif){try{pr _pos=(typeof(parent.document)!="unknown")?(((typeo f(inDapIF)!="undefined")&&(inDapIF))||(parent.docu ment.domain==document.domain))?"&pos=s":"&pos=x":" &pos=x";}catch(e){pr_pos="&pos=x";}if(pr_pos=="&po s=x"){var pr_u=new RegExp("[A-Za-z]+:[/][/][A-Za-z0-9.-]+");var pr_t=this.window.document.referrer;var pr_m=pr_t.match(pr_u);if(pr_m!=null){pr_pos+="&dom ="+pr_m[0];}}else{if(((typeof(inDapMgrIf)!="undefined")&&(in DapMgrIf))||((typeof(isAJAX)!="undefined")&&(isAJA X))){pr_pos+="&ajx=1"}}}var pr_s="ads.pointroll.com/PortalServe/?pid=792368S67920090519190950&flash="+pr_swfver()+ "&time="+pr_d+"&redir="+pr_redir+pr_pos+"&r="+Math .random();document.write("");_qoptions={qacct:"p-56nLJV27kJUrg"};
.prWrap,.prWrap DIV,.prWrap TABLE,.prWrap TABLE TBODY,.prWrap TABLE TR,.prWrap TABLE TD,.prWrap IMG{margin:0px 0px 0px 0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 0px;border:0px 0px 0px 0px;overflow:visible;direction:ltr;background:none ;background-color:transparent;}

<IMG style="WIDTH: 1px; FLOAT: none; HEIGHT: 1px" name=prti width=1 height=1>





There have been simultaneous expressions of jubilation from pilot associations and of horror from airline management on the publication of new recommendations to the European Aviation Safety Agency on modifying its existing flight time limitation (FTL) regulations.
The Association of European Airlines says that, if implemented fully, the recommended changes would require the airlines to employ 15-20% more pilots.
The AEA says the science behind the EASA-commissioned independent scientific study is "flawed" and is not supported by the delivery of "safe operation over many years and millions of flights". Carried out by Switzerland-based aviation consultancy Moebus according to a requirement that EASA should undertake a "scientific and medical" review of the existing FTLs, the report recommends considerable modification to the existing European Joint Aviation Requirements on FTL (JAR FTL).
The recommendations mostly affect the extremes of the rules: those affecting the longest duties - currently allowed to be up to 13-14h, the more arduous multi-sector duty periods, night flights or those that start or end at night, and those that cross multiple time zones. Under these circumstances, the recommendations would - if adopted - reduce duty hours and/or increase rest time.
On very long-haul flights, the requirement for an augmented crew would kick in at lower hours. Another factor is the recommendation to tighten the restrictions on maximum duty totals over consecutive weeks or months, preventing employers from exceeding a safe rate of working by using up a pilot's whole allowance for a month or a year in a far shorter period.
The International Federation of Airline Pilots' Associations praises the report as recognising that fatigue is dangerous. The next step is for the European Commission and EASA to frame the new FTLs for consultation.
Reply
Old 05-29-2009 | 02:56 PM
  #2  
FoxHunter's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 980
Likes: 0
From: Retired
Default

Originally Posted by AerisArmis
This could get interesting!


European flight time limitations: pilots cheer, airlines howl
By David Learmount
function pr_swfver(){var osf,osfd,i,axo=1,v=0,nv=navigator;if(nv.plugins&&n v.mimeTypes.length){osf=nv.plugins["Shockwave Flash"];if(osf&&osf.description){osfd=osf.description;v=p arseInt(osfd.substring(osfd.indexOf(".")-2))}}else{try{for(i=5;axo!=null;i++){axo=new ActiveXObject("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash."+i); v=i}}catch(e){}}return v;}var pr_d=new Date();pr_d=pr_d.getDay()+"|"+pr_d.getHours()+":"+ pr_d.getMinutes()+"|"+-pr_d.getTimezoneOffset()/60;var pr_redir="http://ad.afy11.net/ad?c=5Nda8vO58EaZ+uzaMm62MbHEYmUBgRez8cX4KxYI2SbVK vDtNKLezVrdyuucuHmZjErBZH+FsZ0tpUr3nrAexA==!$CTURL $";var pr_nua=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var pr_pos="",pr_inif=(window!=top);if(pr_inif){try{pr _pos=(typeof(parent.document)!="unknown")?(((typeo f(inDapIF)!="undefined")&&(inDapIF))||(parent.docu ment.domain==document.domain))?"&pos=s":"&pos=x":" &pos=x";}catch(e){pr_pos="&pos=x";}if(pr_pos=="&po s=x"){var pr_u=new RegExp("[A-Za-z]+:[/][/][A-Za-z0-9.-]+");var pr_t=this.window.document.referrer;var pr_m=pr_t.match(pr_u);if(pr_m!=null){pr_pos+="&dom ="+pr_m[0];}}else{if(((typeof(inDapMgrIf)!="undefined")&&(in DapMgrIf))||((typeof(isAJAX)!="undefined")&&(isAJA X))){pr_pos+="&ajx=1"}}}var pr_s="ads.pointroll.com/PortalServe/?pid=792368S67920090519190950&flash="+pr_swfver()+ "&time="+pr_d+"&redir="+pr_redir+pr_pos+"&r="+Math .random();document.write("");_qoptions={qacct:"p-56nLJV27kJUrg"};
.prWrap,.prWrap DIV,.prWrap TABLE,.prWrap TABLE TBODY,.prWrap TABLE TR,.prWrap TABLE TD,.prWrap IMG{margin:0px 0px 0px 0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 0px;border:0px 0px 0px 0px;overflow:visible;direction:ltr;background:none ;background-color:transparent;}


<IMG style="WIDTH: 1px; FLOAT: none; HEIGHT: 1px" name=prti width=1 height=1>





There have been simultaneous expressions of jubilation from pilot associations and of horror from airline management on the publication of new recommendations to the European Aviation Safety Agency on modifying its existing flight time limitation (FTL) regulations.
The Association of European Airlines says that, if implemented fully, the recommended changes would require the airlines to employ 15-20% more pilots.
The AEA says the science behind the EASA-commissioned independent scientific study is "flawed" and is not supported by the delivery of "safe operation over many years and millions of flights". Carried out by Switzerland-based aviation consultancy Moebus according to a requirement that EASA should undertake a "scientific and medical" review of the existing FTLs, the report recommends considerable modification to the existing European Joint Aviation Requirements on FTL (JAR FTL).
The recommendations mostly affect the extremes of the rules: those affecting the longest duties - currently allowed to be up to 13-14h, the more arduous multi-sector duty periods, night flights or those that start or end at night, and those that cross multiple time zones. Under these circumstances, the recommendations would - if adopted - reduce duty hours and/or increase rest time.
On very long-haul flights, the requirement for an augmented crew would kick in at lower hours. Another factor is the recommendation to tighten the restrictions on maximum duty totals over consecutive weeks or months, preventing employers from exceeding a safe rate of working by using up a pilot's whole allowance for a month or a year in a far shorter period.
The International Federation of Airline Pilots' Associations praises the report as recognising that fatigue is dangerous. The next step is for the European Commission and EASA to frame the new FTLs for consultation.
So, what's the BIG Deal? We work under FAA rules not JAA. Our present rules let us go to 10 hours block time for non-stop transcontinental flights, if the aircraft is pressurized. They have duty/flight time for the DC6, DC7, and Connie covered. Do you really expect them to revise the rules to cover JETS?

Last edited by FoxHunter; 05-29-2009 at 05:35 PM.
Reply
Old 05-29-2009 | 03:54 PM
  #3  
Banned
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
From: One foot in the garbage bag...
Default

I want the FAA to institute ICAO medicals.

N!
Reply
Old 05-29-2009 | 05:27 PM
  #4  
HDawg's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Default

How many have you had? How many have you passed?
Reply
Old 05-29-2009 | 05:31 PM
  #5  
FoxHunter's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 980
Likes: 0
From: Retired
Default

Originally Posted by HDawg
How many have you had? How many have you passed?
I would hope he has been getting one every 6/12 months depending on age and position held.
Reply
Old 05-29-2009 | 08:44 PM
  #6  
Banned
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
From: 757 Capt
Default

Originally Posted by FoxHunter
So, what's the BIG Deal? We work under FAA rules not JAA. Our present rules let us go to 10 hours block time for non-stop transcontinental flights, if the aircraft is pressurized. They have duty/flight time for the DC6, DC7, and Connie covered. Do you really expect them to revise the rules to cover JETS?
Hey, we had to change the retirement age because they were doing it. Guess we need stricter duty limits and 15-20% more pilots on the seniority list because the Europeans are doing it. It wouldn't be right to cherrypick would it it?

PIPE
Reply
Old 05-29-2009 | 09:22 PM
  #7  
iarapilot's Avatar
"blue collar thug"!
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 0
From: A proponent of...
Default

Originally Posted by pipe
Hey, we had to change the retirement age because they were doing it. Guess we need stricter duty limits and 15-20% more pilots on the seniority list because the Europeans are doing it. It wouldn't be right to cherrypick would it it?

PIPE
Everything has to be in "alignment" for the New World Order!
Reply
Old 05-30-2009 | 08:45 AM
  #8  
ERJ Jay's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
Default

Originally Posted by pipe
Hey, we had to change the retirement age because they were doing it. Guess we need stricter duty limits and 15-20% more pilots on the seniority list because the Europeans are doing it. It wouldn't be right to cherry pick would it it?
Exactly what I was thinking.
If we have to change age 65 because the Europeans and ICAO did, I think we need to change our rest rules so that we're not "too" tired when we enter their airspace.

However, at the rate European lawyers move, I might retire before they implement them.
Reply
Old 05-30-2009 | 09:24 AM
  #9  
skypine27's Avatar
Proponent of Hysteria
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,089
Likes: 5
From: "Part of the problem." : JL
Default

Originally Posted by AerisArmis
This could get interesting!


European flight time limitations: pilots cheer, airlines howl
By David Learmount
function pr_swfver(){var osf,osfd,i,axo=1,v=0,nv=navigator;if(nv.plugins&&n v.mimeTypes.length){osf=nv.plugins["Shockwave Flash"];if(osf&&osf.description){osfd=osf.description;v=p arseInt(osfd.substring(osfd.indexOf(".")-2))}}else{try{for(i=5;axo!=null;i++){axo=new ActiveXObject("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash."+i); v=i}}catch(e){}}return v;}var pr_d=new Date();pr_d=pr_d.getDay()+"|"+pr_d.getHours()+":"+ pr_d.getMinutes()+"|"+-pr_d.getTimezoneOffset()/60;var pr_redir="http://ad.afy11.net/ad?c=5Nda8vO58EaZ+uzaMm62MbHEYmUBgRez8cX4KxYI2SbVK vDtNKLezVrdyuucuHmZjErBZH+FsZ0tpUr3nrAexA==!$CTURL $";var pr_nua=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var pr_pos="",pr_inif=(window!=top);if(pr_inif){try{pr _pos=(typeof(parent.document)!="unknown")?(((typeo f(inDapIF)!="undefined")&&(inDapIF))||(parent.docu ment.domain==document.domain))?"&pos=s":"&pos=x":" &pos=x";}catch(e){pr_pos="&pos=x";}if(pr_pos=="&po s=x"){var pr_u=new RegExp("[A-Za-z]+:[/][/][A-Za-z0-9.-]+");var pr_t=this.window.document.referrer;var pr_m=pr_t.match(pr_u);if(pr_m!=null){pr_pos+="&dom ="+pr_m[0];}}else{if(((typeof(inDapMgrIf)!="undefined")&&(in DapMgrIf))||((typeof(isAJAX)!="undefined")&&(isAJA X))){pr_pos+="&ajx=1"}}}var pr_s="ads.pointroll.com/PortalServe/?pid=792368S67920090519190950&flash="+pr_swfver()+ "&time="+pr_d+"&redir="+pr_redir+pr_pos+"&r="+Math .random();document.write("");_qoptions={qacct:"p-56nLJV27kJUrg"};
.prWrap,.prWrap DIV,.prWrap TABLE,.prWrap TABLE TBODY,.prWrap TABLE TR,.prWrap TABLE TD,.prWrap IMG{margin:0px 0px 0px 0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 0px;border:0px 0px 0px 0px;overflow:visible;direction:ltr;background:none ;background-color:transparent;}

<IMG style="WIDTH: 1px; FLOAT: none; HEIGHT: 1px" name=prti width=1 height=1>

Excuse me, *** is up with your post? Just post the link.
Reply
Old 05-30-2009 | 09:35 AM
  #10  
MEMFO4Ever's Avatar
Bourgeoisie
15 Years
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: 787 SO
Default

Originally Posted by ERJ Jay
Exactly what I was thinking.
If we have to change age 65 because the Europeans and ICAO did, I think we need to change our rest rules so that we're not "too" tired when we enter their airspace.

However, at the rate European lawyers move, I might retire before they implement them.
Yup, just ignore that big book of ICAO exceptions in the LIDO kit. That's just there for ballast.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Time2Fly
Corporate
38
08-11-2010 09:17 PM
Longbow64
Part 135
117
07-23-2009 08:46 AM
FL450
Mesa Airlines
554
06-07-2009 10:04 AM
MrBigAir
Aviation Law
21
11-06-2008 08:00 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices