FedElta

Just a point for your negotiaing committee : The " D " 777 payrates for contract C2K (2000) were 319.61/12-yr Cap, and 218.29/ 12-yr fo.

We all know that these payrates did NOT cause the slide into BK, but they were in place apprx 10 years ago.

4a2b might not suck quite as badly with a proper payrate. Good luck on your next contract.

Regards,
BG

Gunter

FedElta,

Those going to the 777 this year won't even feel 4a2b. I'm sure some don't even know what it is.

Our 757 crewmembers, no 4a2b there, get paid more than a lower half of the list widebody crewmember.

FedElta

Hey Gunter,
I'm only an outsider , looking in. My hope is that your union will close the contractual loopholes that have allowed the uneven application of 4a2b....new contract coming, right?

My personal experience in this industry is that We are never as clever as They. The payrate is the only thing that They can't outsmart us on.

If you are able to negotiate the proper payrate on the 777, it should drag the other equipment payrates upward as well. B757 paid at narrow body rates?.....not so good. +1 for PC and the boys.

Best of luck,
BG

Gunter

I appreciate the good natured discussion and honest point of view.

The fact is there is no "sting" to be taken out of 4a2b for those on or going to the 777 or 757. That's what I was addressing. Higher pay rates for them may be "industry standard" bargaining technique but it is seldom executed in such junior pilot unfriendly way. Thank you management and DW.

Many have tried to sell me on the trickle down theory over the years. Kinda funny how that is both a Republican and an ALPA slogan. Guess that's why senior ALPA members have trouble giving support to the Democratic party. Union member but conservative. I've got mine but don't want to share. But that is a different, non-APC, discussion.

Somehow Bernie Madoff's picture pops into view and the small hairs stand up on my neck when I hear, "all boats will rise with the tide."

parks31

Not all people going to the 777 are going by choice. I have been at 55ch or so since 4a2b and now am going backwards in seat and payrate...

FDXLAG

Not to be hyper critical but I don't think so. If we pay our CEOs more that will just drag everyone else pay up higher right? We already traded enough to get A 380 rates I aint willing to trade anything to get 777 rates.

FedElta

Hey Lag,

I take your point. Regardless of the outcome of current payrate arbitration, wouldn't contract time be the correct time to fix payrate disparities ?

I only posted the D 777 rates as a bar......if it is of any interest/ value I can post rates for other similar equipment......or you can peruse it over on the Major forum, under "latest & greatest ."

Regards,
BG

Gunter

Not trying to minimize your loss. It is significant and an important consideration. As is all pay loss during this fiasco that was caused by retro and improper 4a2b implementation. Your 55 CH has been partly caused by 75+ CH lines on the 757 and 777 due to too much flying being shifted to soon.

I'm assuming you chose 777 instead of MD11 or A300 and the 777 was the least disruptive for pay purposes.

Importantly, if we didn't have 4a2b you would have been excessed a long time ago.

FDXLAG

Nope I understand. I think we ought to have 8 payrates or 1 payrate. I wouldn't mind hearing the NC thoughts on the subject or a MEC members. Seems like something we should have a majority opinion on before they hit the table. Especially since a lot of Wide Body Airbi pilots may be looking at Narrow body rates in the not to distant future.

Chilitime

What do you mean by that one? Just guys getting bumped, or is the new plan to get rid of the bus?