We used to do 2 Capts, 2 FOs. We even did Capt RFO for awhile, ever see RF2 on a pairing, and I've seen more than a few the past couple weeks. The company started doing 1 Capt, 3 FOs a couple years ago. I personally think ALL RFOs should be RF2s!!

 

I've seen it already, last Sunday, I think! Funny thing is I tried to move some B RSV days to the 3 days after that day to consolidate my days on reserve, and was refused for insufficiant reserves. They could have put me on as RF2@198 instead of DFTing someone @ 1.5 X 206. Oh well, I guess I don't see the big picture!

 

How quickly we forget from where we began. It's been less than 2 months. How could you forget so soon?

You need to treat the F/O underground with respect!

 

I think the point he (MD11Fr8) was trying to make was.............
if all RFO's were CAPTs then we would need approx 150 more MD11 Capts.
That would be a good thing.

 

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

 

I said the samething the 9 yrs I sat in the right seat! If all RFOs were Capts we'd need more Capts!

 

This is a main battle in the UPS TA, currently they can not send 1CA/3FO's but under the TA they can do that and make them fly 2 legs if one is over 11 hours ! That will be a big savings for their company.

 

2cylinder...

This is not a main battle in the IPA ta. It basically reflects industry standard (what you guys are doing right now at federal). What has peoples panties in a wad is that we have have maddog capt iros now that may have to bid another fleet/seat depending on the new anc bids. The iro issue was handled poorly a few years ago by the previous administration and we are seeing the results of that now.

Personally, I think a 1 capt/3 fo heavy crew is more vulnerable to the pac-rim sick call...imagine what would happen then? There is some flexibility gained with 2 capt/2 fo that can at least move the boxes. I'm hoping that if the company gets burned a couple of times (now where are those matches? <BG>) they may add that extra capt in place of the fo.

JMO

Pilot7576

 

Thanks JMO,

I did not mean that issue was a that big i guess, just that it was going to be a possible manning issue like the points you make. FDX is using CA's as IRO's again but only because they are short of FO's !

 

When you say administration, you mean management right? The FACT that the previous IPA EBoard put language restricting FO IROs was a masterful stroke. Way back then (EARLY 90's), when we wanted to negotiate language for the new 767ER's coming on property, the company assured us the aircraft would NEVER be utilized in a manner that would require an IRO. So the previous EBoard put a hook in the contract, restricting the company from forcing FOs to get or maintain a class one medical. A few years later, when the company originally tried to skirt our 1993 "no FO can be required to maintain a class one physical" language," they were stuck negotiating for FO IROs on each fleet type as it was introduced. Otherwise the Union would "allow" Captain IROs until an agreement could be reached.

Having Captain IROs is more expensive, of course, but does allow the company additional flexibility for contingencies on our global flights. To say that the industry standard is 1 Captain and 2 FOs, is the standard for most airlines that generally fly from domicile to an international point, then back to domicile. As the MD11 IRO, I've been resceduled MANY times to operate as the Captain while on the other side of the world, far far away from any reserve coverage in a domestic domicile. We just don't operate in a manner similar to most airliines, so the added flexibility could be useful, unless you're a beancounter.

The FACT that we currently operate with MD11 Captains as IROs does mean that the current FO upgrades will be slowed IF the TA that allows FO IRO passes. BUT, remember, many FOs realized an accelerated upgrade to Captain when the company was forced by our old EBoard to operate only with Captain IROs, so it's kind of a wash, if you step back and look at the historical big picture.

If you're referring to the side letter of agreement that allows the company to even staff the MD11 with an IRO after we turned down the mid-term TA, I might have to agree with you on that one. That was probably one of the bigger straws that got BM voted out of office....