MD11Fr8Dog

One more.

TonyC

If I recall correctly, he didn't win in the sense of achieving a verdict. The Association's Insurance Underwriter advised us to settle out of court, and, being as we still want insurance, we took their advice.


He trained to the left seat of the MD-11, but he is still management.



The last time I heard this, I was unqualified to comment. Having now experienced the 727-100 vs. 727-200 difference, and the MD-11 vs. MD-10 difference, I have to say, I disagree. While the main gear is located farther aft of the cockpit on the 727-200, the yoke still works the same, has the same feel, gets the same response. The only thing different is the picture.

The MD-10 not only looks different, it feels different and handles differently. There is no computer participating in the landing, as in the MD-11. Now, I haven't flown the DC-10 (yet) so I can't participate in the DC-10 vs MD-10 discussion, but I have to throw up the flag on the 727 comparison.



I gather from your other comments that you think the problem lies in the lack of fundamental skills of the pilots, who never hand fly, and aren't good enough to carry 250 knots to the marker like you did. You're probably right - - we're nothing but a weak generation, a mere shadow of the greatest generation such as yourself. If only we could be so good... Oh, wait... I remember, you like these: <G>




Seriously, I handflew so much my first year in the MD-11 that I almost forgot how to put the autopilot on at 500 for my first PT. I don't think that's the solution to making the MD-10 land like an MD-11. It just doesn't.




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TonyC

The media outlets were reporting a grass fire that started from sparks that resulted from the wing dragging on the runway.

I think this picture shows more than a grass fire.








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MD11Fr8Dog

The left pod engine was pretty much a crispy critter based on the pics I saw on TV. When we took off from 27 later in the afternoon, it looked like they started a veer to the left at about mid field and dragged the left gear or pod engine for about 2500 ft until stopping - based on the marks I could see on the rwy.

FX Bone Guy

They land differently, but that doesn't mean the gear should collapse on a hard landing. Look at the landings - on the runway - in MD-11 or MD-10 - that resulted in hull loss or nearly so --- LANDING GEAR COLLAPSE. A number of DC-10's and variants of that design have experienced failed landing gear, including a FedEx MD-11 accident at Newark in 1997 and a Mandarin Airlines MD-11 landing at Hong Kong in 1999, and a FedEx MD-10 loss at MEM in 2003.(jumpseaters said it wasn't that hard of a landing, but there was some side forces due to crosswind)... and now again in Memphis.

Do you remember the June 2005 incident at Louisville where a UPS MD-11 nosegear broke up as a result of "hard derotation"? How hard do you have to de-rotate to do that?

I'm sure there's more out there about gear failures from other MD-11 users. Any one know of others?

fdx727pilot

Well, Duh. I just didn't know if it was a JS or an LCA, as this was about 1/2 hour after it happened. If 4 bailed from a 10 or 72, would you assume a JS or use a question mark to indicate you weren't sure.

prezbear

As far as hull losses, the A-310 in Manila was not lost, only damaged. I have flown that airplane, I believe it was 420FE.

TonyC

In those two cases, both MD-11s, it would have been preferable that the landing gear fail, rather than the WING, which failed first. Since the wing failed, the remaining wing caused the airplane to roll inverted.

At least in the case of these two MD-10s, the gear failed but the wing remained attached, and the airplane remained upright.



My tally of hull losses looks like this:

DC-10 Stewart - - undeclared Haz caused fire, crew landed
MD-11 Newark - - wing fell off during landing, rolled inverted
MD-11 Subic Bay - - airspeed malfunction, fast landing, overrun into bay
MD-10 Memphis - - crosswind landing, main gear collapsed
727 Tallahassee - - night, non-precision into black hole effect, landed short
MD-10 Memphis - - unknown


Did I miss any big ones? (There's a lot of MDs in that list. Coincidence?)




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2cylinderdriver

Anyone know the status of the MD10 that had the hard landing in DEN ? I know it had some serious damage but have not heard any info recently.

mike734

OK, now I don't really mean to be flame bait here but here goes.

Considering how few flight FedEx has and its' short history, isn't that a HUGE number of hull losses? What's going on over there? Doesn't FedEx hire lots of Navy guys? Maybe they just don't know what a hard landing is.

OK OK, relax. I kid, I kid. I kid because I love. Seriously though could there be a kernel of truth there? Or, is the MD11 just a POS and difficult to handle in less than idea conditions?