There is also time to change your vote.

I find it very interesting that self described "educated" NO voters want to hold off until the end of the 2 year NPRM implementation period to get a pay raise with the rest of the contract. Some even deny that period exists.

You'll see. We won't get the lost money back if this thing fails. We'll have a choice like in the 2006 contract. Pay raise and bonus or scheduling rules. Both will come out of the bucket of money the company negotiators get.

The contract to stop scheduling shenanigans will not go down without a protracted fight and they won't enter the critical round before they have taken advantage of the federally authorized implementation period. Why would they if they don't have to? LOA leverage? Maybe. But that's not the only tool we have and shouldn't be the best one. If it is we are in trouble. They can open MD11 HKG right now. That's the one that will save the most money and is the one folks think will decimate our best flying.

Get mad that the contract to fix CBA 2006 problems is not here or deal with the current realities. It's your choice.

Question -

Do you think the company won't open a bid for HKG MD11 if the TA fails?

I think they will hold it pass or not.

Curious, what do you think about it then? The main reason I say he is leading is that he actually takes a position and tells you why.

Do you also disagree with my statement that block 5 rep is a leader in this case?

Gunter, you've got it all figured out, huh? It's interesting, but I believe that we will see a contract sooner if we turn down the TA. I do consider myself an educated voter, and I think once we give the company their desires (CGN LOA), they'll give us the cold shoulder at the table. They aren't dealing with us to be our buddies or because we need a raise, they want the cost savings of the FDA. I don't think most of us are being greedy, but there are several issues that need attention (most of all 4.A.2.b.) and I won't agree to a contract that doesn't address these problems. And no, I'm not looking for backpay.

Will they open up HKG MD-11? Honestly, I don't know nor do I care. I have no delusions that the TA will be voted down, but you have to ask yourself why they haven't opened it up already. If they open up the HKG for the -11 and it's a good enough deal for someone, they should bid it. I have no problems with that. Those that are in HKG now knew the deal, and I have no sympathy for those that chose the deal.

The "word on the street" is that the union's "plan" is to only take the one year deal and go back to the table. If this is true, and we'll only know in a year, is that we are giving up our FDA leverage for a lousy cost of living raise.

I think it's a terrible deal and I voted no.

Here is a point that I agree with you. It won't be too long before there are MD-10/11 in CGN either.

My question back to you is, should we pay for the FDA improvements as we are in this TA or allow the company to spend their own capital to make that domicile happen? To get the FDAs fully manned the company will have to make them more appealing to all crew members. Thanks to the A300 F/Os, most of us now know that, except you.

We should be rationally using our negotiating capital to improve the contract in areas that we know to be deficient. If we capitulate on the FDA now, the company will exploit the vague language in the CBA, modify the system form to maximize the FDA efficiencies, degrade the domestic pairings and bid packs to comply with the NPRM, still have 4A2B as an insurance policy funded by the pilots and we will have nothing but the 3% to show for it.

There is NOTHING in this TA that is worthy of our expedited approval. What is missing from this TA far more critically important.

We're all paying for it without the TA.

If we don't accept the pay raise the company will use that money elsewhere. Perhaps on more for the FDA folks outside of a contract. Maybe it will go to MBO bonuses as they brag about their successful divide and conquer campaign.

(Personal attacks aside) They don't have to fill an MD11 HKG bid to 100% to save money. I think they may be perfectly happy filling it at 60-80% if they can keep our hourly rates lower than they would be under the TA.

I also think they're waiting to post it because they need to factor in/out a 757 CGN bid.

Sorry dude, but you just don't make sense.

He is making sense, you just don't want to hear it.

I'm trying to hear it, but just don't.

All he is saying is speculation and the sky is falling. I'd bet he is planning on bidding the FDA.

I see no reason for someone that plans on staying US based to vote for the TA. I'm really trying to see the reasoning, but cutting our bidpacks for a cost of living raise is just not too smart. I'd rather get the backpay and keep the bidpack. I stand to lose thousands of cherry picked trips to improve the FDAs and open CGN. Anyone in the MD-11, A-300, and 757 will take a near immediate impact in their quality of life.

It's the biggest loser for the vast majority of us...

[Personal attacks aside] Great! If the company is actually better off filling the FDAs in the manner you outline without giving us the pay rates in the TA then why are they agreeing to the TA?????

Your argument is that it's to their advantage for the TA to NOT pass...???

Is this something the company figured out after they agreed to the TA?

What FDA vacancy rates make them "unhappy"?

I'm listening --- but confused by the logic behind your arguments.