I'm wondering if I picked up a 777 secondary would I train after all or most 777 pilots awarded on 11-01 or would I get inserted into training based on my seniority? This scenario (777 aircraft) is probably a little different than some mentioned above in previous posts. I didn't bid on 11-01 because I have a daughter graduating from high school this summer and going to college. I don't want to miss any of that.

 

Just curious, how is it possible to NOT have a bid for 12-18 months with all the 777/757 arrivals in the next 18 months? Those new CA/FO slots, of aircraft that have not yet arrived, are not accounted for on 11-01 or 11-02, correct?

 

You will train after all the Pilots getting an award on 11-01 (with the exception of the Pilots listed as FLX or LCA on the training letter).

 

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Yes, there are already ton's of swaps going on in the MD-11. I know a SO who had a date in 2012 and it got moved to 3 weeks from now.

Heard someone in ops say they got an email to start Monday and they were not scheduled to start until 2012 as well.

Lot's of swapping going on for sure.

 

Actually, the slots in these 2 bids are not only to cover expected retirements, but also scheduled fleet growth, as was listed in the FCIFs announcing both bids. So, no, you are incorrect. All the scheduled 757/777 arrivals for the time period are accounted for in these two bids.

 

Why would a current SO go to the MD11 over a bus or 757, or why not go to 727 FO? Is there a big pay difference? Are the schedules better on certain planes? Where can you make the most money? I would think a 727 SO would just go to the FO seat? Are those 727 trips good?

 

The pay for the Bus, Md-11, and 777 are the same. The international trips will pay a lot better.

Better schedules are in the eye of the beholder. MD-11 offers a lot of everything. Not so much the other Acft. 727 bidpack is shrinking rapidly. This effects relative seniority. 727 trips can no longer be considered good IMHO.

Seniority in your seat has a lot to do with how much money you can make and how good your schedule is. Many 727 SOs could have bid out of the seat a long time ago but choose the relative seniority and the QOL that offers.

 

OK, got it. I read the FCIF, but did not recall that piece of info.

So, with all the vacancies posted, which cover new 777/757 arrivals, it seems like the MD11FO will be junior to the 757FO? Is that right??? Just trying to understand how there are only 7 vacancies for 757FO and about 90 for MD11FO, specially since those vacancies carried over from 11-01.

Did too many of us FO's go to the narrowbody thinking better seniority, but ended up being more junior than in a widebody???

Please explain as if I were a five year old

Thanks.

 

Many in our bottom 10% have been there for over 3 years and want off reserve. The fastest way to achieve that is to bid what has just become our most junior, growing airplane. The 757. The 727 is shrinking so fast long standing line holders have suddenly found themselves on reserve. Going to the MD11 or Airbus is an even bigger pay raise but reserve will likely have to be endured for years longer for the bottom 10%.

Credit on reserve averages 4+40 hrs per day
Credit for a trip is usually 6 hrs per day


MD11 scheduling has a reputation for not allowing reserve day drops or moves. If you were to analyze the seniority of those on the MD11 you would see a steep rise in seniority just above those who are at risk of sitting unwanted reserve.

If one is to commit to a life of non-moveable reserve, the 777 is the better bet. Only the 777 gets 5+50 hrs of credit per day of reserve. They also get much better paying trips.

Management of scheduling has created conditions that, once again, is sending a large number of newhires to the MD11. Quarterly changes to our fleet and pilot retirements also create too much uncertainty during our 18 month bid cycle. Many are defaulting to safe bets before "bidding what they want to fly".

We're constantly reminded to "bid what you want to fly"
We actually "bid to avoid what we don't want to endure when the plan changes"

Maybe that's what they meant in the first place.