Airline Pilot Central Forums - The TA and the Flex

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ooops, looks like I should have typed faster. I see redeyeav8r and I have a similar view.

I think it's a fairly common view.

No question, our "School House Boys" are some of the best. Lots of study, and prep work. But what did Block 11 do to support the NC? Sorry your guys took a hit. But I'd rather see the majority of the improvements go to the guys and girls that carried the load. If the Flex folks all stood together and only worked their scheds....things might have been different. We will never know this go around.

I'm not on the fence at all. We're not going to do much better than $800+M if we turn it down. Especially if you consider the time value of the dollars that we wouldn't get. And, worse yet, it sends a TERRIBLE mesage to management if we turn this one down. 80%+ would be great to see. This is, on the whole, far from a bad offer considering the condition of the industry and the recent UPS TA.

Again, just my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r (Post 61164)

I will ask you this and answer honestly.................................

Under this TA.........Will you make Less or More than what you could make being a normal Line Guy with what your seniority will let you hold.

Will you have a better QOL as a FLEX guy under this TA than you would as a Line Dog?

I understand your point, but there are many of Line dogs that feel we didn't get the need scheduling protections we deserved......which affect all of us.
Unfortuantely for 4711 pilots.......only about 250 care about section 11.

Look at Block 11...........how many NON members do you see there?

How much "Individual Resolve" was being conducted by the School House Boys during negotiations. I am not saying FLEX guys were the only ones looking out for #1 because that isn't so. But I saw more Flex guys at the trough more often. Just look and see how many FLEX guys choose to block their calenders.

I personally witnessed Many MD-11 Flex Capts flying Draft an an FO.
I had a few as My FO's.

So while you might have been doing all you could to support the Negotiating effort........a large portion of your FLEX bretheren were not. We got what we got. There are many things in this TA I am not happy with.
By all means vote NO if your that unhappy...........I am still on the fence.

I guess you mean will I make more as a Flex than I could as a normal line guy? And, don't worry, I always answer honestly. That's a really hard question to answer. On the line, I normally bid reserve and get used 60-80% of the time on average. When we're not showing the flag, I pick up DRF trips when they suit my fancy. Nine hours per trip doesn't take too long to make up that big $800/month flex pay if you know what I mean. I can tell you I've made less money since becoming a flex than I normally did on the line. I would not have made any more had I been on the line, though, because I do what I'm supposed to do...

QOL under the TA. I'll work more days in the school house and have to fly the line at straight time (most likely) in order to have some comfort level in the airplane now that the fly days built into my schedule have been severely cut by the TA. My QOL as a flex is actually worse than when I was on the line. As I said, reserve + living locally is a pretty sweet combo. I also had WAY better control over my monthly schedule as a line guy. I really, really enjoy teaching and I think I make a difference is the answer to the question that just popped into your head. I don't think the wife will let me do this for too long, so I'm going to enjoy teaching while I can.

As far as NMs, look at the list of Airbus or MD Captains, too. All I can say is I didn't pick 'em. Also, how many have you seen hired lately??? I don't think the flexes are any different as far as the line dogs concerning 'individual resolve'. I saw about the same amount of whoring on both sides. I'm embarassed for both.

I didn't jump onto this posting to bash the TA. Just to bash the morons who saw it as a positive or at worst a neutral that Flex instructors lost ground on this TA. I think we all should be lamenting that in this time of plenty, we lost ground here.

Hope I answered all your questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by av8rmike (Post 61173)

Hope I answered all your questions.

Fair enough and appreciate the honesty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyByNite (Post 61169)

Carried the load? Do you mean 'Do what they were supposed to do to support the NC' or do you mean 'Fly the freight that earns all the $'? If it's the first, there sure as heck aren't enough scummy flexes to go out and fly even a small % of those DRF, VLT and disputed pairings that were being flown for the last 29 months. It was mostly all those honorable line guys picking that stuff up... If you mean the second, you wouldn't be hauling the freight if someone weren't there to give you initial training, recurrent and annual training, right? So if the second was your meaning, we are carrying our share of the load.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busboy (Post 61166)

There may have been a good bit of animosity fostered during the last 2.5 years. When management is dragging their feet during contract negotiations, and we have no recourse but individual resolve, we learn that 75% of the whoours, making over $400,000 at FedEx, are flex guys. It ****es people off!!

I don't know what you particular guys made, and I don't really care. But, most flex guys are guilty by association. They took money out of all of our pockets. I believe this could have been over at least a year ago if we'd have had some help from the school-house. Whether it was flying draft trips or working draft sims. The flex-guys hosed us all.

And, the excuse that, "If we didn't play along, they'd fire us from our flex position", just doesn't hold water. I don't think they should have waited to be fired. I would have helped myself out the door if that was one of the conditions for keeping that position. That's the same reasoning people have tried to use for crossing a picket line. I consider them thieves. They stole from every pilot at FedEx.

So, sorry if those rocks sting. But, I think it mgiht explain some of the anger, out on the line.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I may be wrong.

Wow. I haven't heard that one. Where did those figures come from and could you do a guy a favor and point me in that direction? If you make that as a flex you either hate your family or are single. Remember, a flex draft day is worth 1.5*(R day value). Exp: 1.5*4.5=6.75,,,, You make waaaay better coin picking up DRF or VLT on the line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by av8rmike (Post 61179)

Heard it from an extremely reliable official source. Sadly, must remain unnamed. We had 100 guys make more than $400,000 last year, and 75 of them were flex instructors.

What are you paid when you work 2 flex drafts in one day?

What choo talkin bout, Willis?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busboy (Post 61181)

Kind of like the unicorn, I've heard of these things, but have never actually seen one. No kidding. I guess it could maybe be happening, but I've never seen of it nor heard of it around the ranch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busboy (Post 61181)

Hey, they didn't work for the Commercial Appeal, did they? They seem to have such a reliable handle on our pay....