space monkey
 

You are what is wrong with this industry. You are the type to go a major airline via an ab initio program or via some internship without even an ATP and then start hailing yourself king of the world. Now from that lofty perch, you then go and thumb your nose down at everyone else at every other place saying how your job is better, how you wont settle for anything less, and how you are a real man with a real job. Truth is that any senior pilot at said major would slap your ass silly for having such a cavalier attitude instead of one of ultimate gratitude mixed in with humility with a side of sympathy for those at lesser jobs. You are the type to come in to a CAL and wave your shiny new wings around without even the slightest clue of what it was like during the Lorenzo years. The likes you would have washed out of training flying brand new 727's or DC-8's for a major because they require real pilots, and when I say that, it includes being a consummate professional who didnt thumb their noses down at those still flying electra's or even the 4-eng recips around....btw...do you even know what an electra is, probably not and you couldnt give a **** because your shiny new red tail is so advanced and clean and sleek that you wouldnt be caught dead in a lesser aircraft.......the fact that escapes your tragically immature mind is that those real pilots back then, blazened trails that had never been walked before. That nifty little Mach trim in your jet?..........yeah, that was because line pilots were discovering and defining what the hell Mach Tuch was and then going to the OEM's and telling them what was going on, so now you and I can benefit from that and fly shiny new jets that take care of that for us.......but you couldnt give a **** about that right?

I am not defending the low payscales especially on the wide bodies. Fact is, it sucks. I have to ask you though....at 1st year FO pay for an RJ, you are hipocritically keeping the bar low yourself by accepting said job...arent you? yes, i know you just started to grow pubes and have oodles of years ahead of you to get that "real job" so you have to start out somewhere right? Can I ask you how you make it on that small a salary for the 1st couple of years? Do you own a home, are you married? do you have kids to feed? You see, theoretically, no one should be working at the "so called bottom feeders" until they pay at least decent wages. But it doesnt work that way, people have other than money as their reasons....(i think this is what you were referring to as: to each their own) Some are retired military and have a retirement so subsidize their income as well as freee medical and benny's.....that make a huge difference, some have........well, responsibilities. Are they to say no to the 121 non-skeds and hold out only for UPS, FEDEX or SWA while collecting unemployment or working at Home Depot? Fact is pal, UPS, FEDEX didnt always pay well. Do you like history? Well aviation is full of it and it tends to repeat itself. Back in the 70's Panam and Eastern were the ****, no one knew who fred smith was or cared about herb kelleher. AMR, and DAL were just trying to keep up with Branniff and pan am by gettting jets and being competitive while not paying what the formers were paying. In your world, they wouldve been the bottom feeders and their pilots idiots for working there and not at panam. But I'd bet that today, you would blow a senior SWA captain and give him your left nut to have him walk in your resume not to mention get your 737 rating. Or would you be the first in line to give rim jobs to any senior pilot at UAL to have your resume looked at first?

Non-skeds have been around longer than majors have.....fedex grew big time when they acquired flying tigers, ( do you know or care about that?) all nonskeds as well. But above in your post you dismissed this all in the favorite comeback of your age:...whatever......right?
You disregarded how someone was pointing out to you that they brought you your playstation from around the world and disrespected their sacrifice and commitment to keep world commerce moving with your rebuttal: whatever.
It would be like a kid (no not you, someone actually younger like say 8) coming into the cockpit and wanting to talk to the pilot, and hearing him say you are just a copilot and not a real pilot, I want to talk to the real pilot.

Yes, pal...ignorance is bliss......but it also can be downright ignorant, disrespectful, and hostile when it comes from someone sharing the same Flight levels, with those "lesser pukes".

Flying 5 legs a day is tough, I give you due credit for hanging on to the tail of the jet through all that day after day for nothing. Hopefully you will not have a rough career, hopefully you will not be there 8-15 years, get married, have a family then watch as your job goes away for any number of reasons.
Perhaps you would have a stroke of genius as to how then you can get a new job at the then great airline right away and stave off unemployment, or doing landscaping, because if you do we are all ears.

but for those of us that havent been so lucky and have responsibilities and have had to take those "lesser" jobs we just ask that you perhaps ask and try and understand the reasons why. try to pilot a widebody across multiple time zones several times a month. try to negotiate typhoons in the pacific rim over different countries that dont like each other. try and bring home troops from iraq over places that would shoot you down, cut your head off and display on bridge, while being days away from home, away from the wife and kids.....try to understand something called fulfillment and contribution. Do you know that the military front lines dont get paid ****, but yet they risk the "ultimate sacrifice"? in your world they are bottom feeders right? Well there are pilots who bring them back home safe and sound hurricane or no hurricane and do it with little pay but with a whole lot of sense of accomplishment, duty, and that is where they derive alot of their fulfillment from? Have you ever seen a sunrise over the international date line over the pacific ocean? Have you ever landed a jet in India and while laying over, have seen real poverty? Have you ever seen a kid peddle chicklets with his parents peddling cigarettes around the othe side of the corner in a third world countryat 11pm while all the tourists go bar hopping in their town? Witness this a couple of times and you will rapidly gain a certain appreciation to have been born in the USA, and having had the privelage of making it to a level to where you can fly the world and bare witness to all of it? these are some of the things that you havent even thought about because well, you just dont know any better.

But when you add insult to injury on this board, certain people take offense to it and they wish to "educate" you properly. I am aware that this has turned into some sort of rant, but the sad fact is that those of us who have been in the industry longer than RJ's see more and more of your kind come out of the ERAU's or the UND's with an attitude that says: I've paid my 100K tuition, and I want the right seat of a brand new RJ and a fast track to the left seat so that I can get to a major airline in no time and rule the world.....

Bottom line "monkey".......it's ok to want to rule the world and get to the left seat of a 777, just listen 99% more, dont thumb your nose down at anyone that does something you wouldnt do or dont care to and I'd be willing to bet a month's salary that you would perhaps with time gain some real valuable insights that will make you realize the lunacy of some of your positions and judgements.

CAC737, thank you.

Well said, do I hear an Amen!

We've got to find a cure for SJS, maybe we need a telethon.....

Well said but this punk won't listen. He's still working on the 1500 more total time so he meets the minimums to apply at Focus!

18 Wheeler..who u be? Send me a PM

I don't post much on these boards, but felt the need to thank cac737 for voicing what many of us feel. In regards to the differences between Regionals and Cargo, I recently came to Evergreen after working as a Captain at a large regional. Although I haven't been here long, I will tell you that you can tell the difference from the first day of training (better hotel, rental car, better training philosophy, etc). There is also no way to compare flying one leg every 3 days with a long layover in a great hotel, to flying 8 leg days with reduced rest at a commuter. Although I'm new here, I did work a two week on / two week off schedule in Alaska for years, and found that for me that was MUCH better than the 3 days at home (sometimes 2) at a commuter. Finally, all of us aren't going to Fedex or UPS, and for me this a fine place to be.

the real culprits........
 

Hey guys,

I also don't do much posting on these boards, but also felt compelled to share some "thoughts". I can't totally blame monkeyboy though, because he just doesn't know any better. He still has the image of that smiling 19 year old with full uniform and hat sitting in the left seat of a major airliner with the caption: $19,500 ab initio fast track program to the left seat, guaranteed interview or whatever they are marketing nowadays still burning in his mind, and for the lack of a proper education that is all he has to go by......so it totally isn't all his fault. Which brings me to the beef I have with these Gawd damn colleges that still peddle their ****e WITHOUT some dose of reality.

They have a financial back alley agreement with the mesa's or other highly visible carrier and don't fully explain to them all aspects of aviation.
Ah well, I can go on and on but we all know the deal here, but speaking of focus, I just shake my head at some of what I hear about how they do things from a guy I know that works there. Same ol promises of a start up only to %$# their crews while they try to grow.

Oh well, still beats home depot or a cubicle 9-5 contemplating when you will take the stapler and "set the building on fire"....... :D

It occured to me in late 1995 that the 121 Supplementals were the "undiscovered country". I found a niche, made a LOT of money, and had a better life.

-Something comes to mind: The people in the HR departments at the various 121 Supplementals monitor this stuff constantly, and I'm sure that very soon they are going to realize what I realized about 11 years ago- that people WANT to come here. The regionals are imploding; their pay scales have become too high due to longevity, and all that is necessary for those airlines to disappear is for the major airline partner to declare bankruptcy. Don't think so? Look at what happened to Atlantic Coast Airlines. Their major airline partner [United] went into bankruptcy, and their contract came up. United basically proposed to ACA a United Express contract that would have meant losses to ACA. Rather than ask the ACA ALPA and AFA units on the property for givebacks, they decided to try to be their own airline on the east coast.

[I worked at ACA; the management was clueless, and the place fell on its' face. The sad part is that a lot of very nice people lost their jobs last January. Kalitta Air picked up a bunch of these guys.]

"Independence Air" burned kerosene and dollars, and shut down in January.

Part 121 Supplementals can do the "Passenger Pigeon" thing too [I worked at Express One International], but at least you have some quality of life and you will always make money at these places....since it is WAY more profitable to fly a pound of boxes than it is to fly a pound of flesh!

-I kept this secret, this "undiscovered" end of the industry to myself for years. I suspect that kind of like Florida real estate over the past 5 years [with the exception of 2006]...it is going to suddenly become REAL popular to be a 121 Supplemental pilot!

I'm glad to be leaving the whole thing. Thanx!

N!

Thanks cac737!!!!! Well said!

Not all UND grads have SJS. I have ugly square turboprop syndrome. RJ () Shorts []

I graduated from UND, did my time flight instructing and went straight to frieght. I am a turboprop FO right now, I make more than some regional FOs, I like my job most of the time and fairly quick upgrades are possible. Its a long way off but I look forward to flying something heavy across the ocean. Do any companies flying 747s, DC10s or MD11s hire people without turbojet time?

Pilots at my company talk about good times had when they were stuck in exotic locales like Detroit, Louisville, Huntsville or Dallas. When I jumpseated on Polar to Tokyo their pilots talk about good times had all over the world. They also get catering. I only get catering when the FBO guy hooks us up with the extras a corperate jet didn't take. Catering and no autopilot is fun.