FDX - Block 3 results
07-18-2012, 03:09 PM
#11
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Originally Posted by dogbone
Jungle,
Sounds to me like you are doing exactly what you are accusing Busboy of by implying that anyone who contributes to the PAC a moron. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Sounds to me like you are doing exactly what you are accusing Busboy of by implying that anyone who contributes to the PAC a moron. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
It is clear that ALPA has spent a lot of time and energy to make sure their salaries have increased-not so much for the pilot group.
Whether you want to talk about union elections or PACs, calling people morons for not buying into the party line is a mistake. I think we are all big boys and quite capable of making our own choices about what is important and what is worthless, and it is not my place to decide who the morons are just to note the results.
If only three percent consider the PAC a worthy cause, then that draws a very distinct line, it does not mean they are morons-it does mean they have a limited view that is not shared by 97% of their fellow pilots.
Busboy has chosen to call 85% of the pilot group morons, I have chosen not to call any portion of the pilot group morons.
Last edited by jungle; 07-18-2012 at 03:30 PM.
07-18-2012, 04:23 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Originally Posted by jungle
What I am saying is that I would not call members of my pilot group morons because they don't all jump on the groupthink bandwagon.
It is clear that ALPA has spent a lot of time and energy to make sure their salaries have increased-not so much for the pilot group.
Whether you want to talk about union elections or PACs, calling people morons for not buying into the party line is a mistake. I think we are all big boys and quite capable of making our own choices about what is important and what is worthless, and it is not my place to decide who the morons are just to note the results.
If only three percent consider the PAC a worthy cause, then that draws a very distinct line, it does not mean they are morons-it does mean they have a limited view that is not shared by 97% of their fellow pilots.
Busboy has chosen to call 85% of the pilot group morons, I have chosen not to call any portion of the pilot group morons.
It is clear that ALPA has spent a lot of time and energy to make sure their salaries have increased-not so much for the pilot group.
Whether you want to talk about union elections or PACs, calling people morons for not buying into the party line is a mistake. I think we are all big boys and quite capable of making our own choices about what is important and what is worthless, and it is not my place to decide who the morons are just to note the results.
If only three percent consider the PAC a worthy cause, then that draws a very distinct line, it does not mean they are morons-it does mean they have a limited view that is not shared by 97% of their fellow pilots.
Busboy has chosen to call 85% of the pilot group morons, I have chosen not to call any portion of the pilot group morons.
But, your use of phrases like, "Groupthink bandwagon" and "buying into the party line", in relation to low voter turnout for a representative election makes me think you have no idea what you are talking about.
Originally Posted by jungle
...The very low rate of contribution to your union's PAC is a clear indicator that all of your fellow pilots are indeed not morons.
07-18-2012, 05:27 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Kubota Captain
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by jungle
It is always funny to see someone call their fellow pilots morons, instead you might want to reflect on the reason turnout is so low.
Clearly everyone besides yourself is not a moron, so they clearly have different ideas about what is important, what matters and what is going to decide their future.
The very low rate of contribution to your union's PAC is a clear indicator that all of your fellow pilots are indeed not morons.
Clearly everyone besides yourself is not a moron, so they clearly have different ideas about what is important, what matters and what is going to decide their future.
The very low rate of contribution to your union's PAC is a clear indicator that all of your fellow pilots are indeed not morons.
07-18-2012, 07:31 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Originally Posted by M4900S
I agree, that is the same attitude and number one reason that ALPA 1 failed here at FedEx and was replaced by FPA. It's my opinion that if the ALPA 1 leadership had taken a different approach, the FPA experiment would not have happened and we would be better off today. Hind sight is 20/20, but I just hate to see that attitude again.
But, this isn't about ALPA, FPA or any union by any other name. This is about our pilot group. And, the apathy that it displays. When only 15% of us are engaged enough to perform the most basic of rights, electing the person that is going to represent you, I think we have an extremely apathetic group.
You can come up with whatever excuse you want for it. But, the bottom line is, it is OUR union. It's not ALPA's or FPA's or Jungle's. It's yours and mine. And, it is up to us, the pilot group, to determine if it's a failure or a success. Only 15% of a group taking the time to elect a representative, when Sec 6 openers are just months away, seems like pretty bad judgement to me.
Would you like to sit across the negotiating table from someone that is keenly aware of the apathy we show?
From dictionary.com:
mo·ron [mawr-on, mohr-]
noun
1.
Informal . a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
07-18-2012, 08:06 PM
#15
With The Resistance
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Burning the Agitprop of the Apparat
Posts: 6,191
Originally Posted by Busboy
Seriously? This is really fascinating. You really think that the attitude that I hold, about apathy in OUR union, was the cause of ALPA 1 failing? ALPA 1 failed because 50%+/- of our pilot group never joined the union, from day one. And in fact, literally worked against ALPA's efforts to secure a 1st contract.
But, this isn't about ALPA, FPA or any union by any other name. This is about our pilot group. And, the apathy that it displays. When only 15% of us are engaged enough to perform the most basic of rights, electing the person that is going to represent you, I think we have an extremely apathetic group.
You can come up with whatever excuse you want for it. But, the bottom line is, it is OUR union. It's not ALPA's or FPA's or Jungle's. It's yours and mine. And, it is up to us, the pilot group, to determine if it's a failure or a success. Only 15% of a group taking the time to elect a representative, when Sec 6 openers are just months away, seems like pretty bad judgement to me.
Would you like to sit across the negotiating table from someone that is keenly aware of the apathy we show?
From dictionary.com:
mo·ron [mawr-on, mohr-]
noun
1.
Informal . a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
But, this isn't about ALPA, FPA or any union by any other name. This is about our pilot group. And, the apathy that it displays. When only 15% of us are engaged enough to perform the most basic of rights, electing the person that is going to represent you, I think we have an extremely apathetic group.
You can come up with whatever excuse you want for it. But, the bottom line is, it is OUR union. It's not ALPA's or FPA's or Jungle's. It's yours and mine. And, it is up to us, the pilot group, to determine if it's a failure or a success. Only 15% of a group taking the time to elect a representative, when Sec 6 openers are just months away, seems like pretty bad judgement to me.
Would you like to sit across the negotiating table from someone that is keenly aware of the apathy we show?
From dictionary.com:
mo·ron [mawr-on, mohr-]
noun
1.
Informal . a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
Most of us look at the whole, and the results aren't pleasing to most.
But since you feel 85% of your pilot group is composed of morons, I guess there isn't much chance of catching up with you.
07-18-2012, 08:58 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Unless I'm greatly mistaken it wasn't a whole pilot group election, but only a Block 3 election. So, the 85% who didn't vote are a fraction of the entire crew force.
A substantial portion of whom might be apathetic about voting, but, certainly doesn't mean they are "morons". Certainly hard to persuade anyone to join your viewpoint if you start out by calling them names.
Also, I didn't perceive a black\white split between the candidates. But, also have to admit I at least didn't get a whole series of goals\policies by the candidates and I must have missed the televised debate-no doubt because I'm a moron. No, wait, I voted so I must be a slightly intelligent moron.
ALPA a waste of money, back to the FPA days---but, the dues were higher then. Hmmm. I need to have a union just in case MGT reads this APC post and decides I created a hostile environment by calling my fellow employees morons-no wait, that wasn't me, phew, But still, if the company takes me hostage I want a team of lawyers at my side trying to get my job back. But, I'm a pilot so I'm going with the union that charges me the lowest dues. YEAH, ALPA I love you guys again
A substantial portion of whom might be apathetic about voting, but, certainly doesn't mean they are "morons". Certainly hard to persuade anyone to join your viewpoint if you start out by calling them names.
Also, I didn't perceive a black\white split between the candidates. But, also have to admit I at least didn't get a whole series of goals\policies by the candidates and I must have missed the televised debate-no doubt because I'm a moron. No, wait, I voted so I must be a slightly intelligent moron.
ALPA a waste of money, back to the FPA days---but, the dues were higher then. Hmmm. I need to have a union just in case MGT reads this APC post and decides I created a hostile environment by calling my fellow employees morons-no wait, that wasn't me, phew, But still, if the company takes me hostage I want a team of lawyers at my side trying to get my job back. But, I'm a pilot so I'm going with the union that charges me the lowest dues. YEAH, ALPA I love you guys again
07-19-2012, 03:46 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: Kubota Captain
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by Busboy
Seriously? This is really fascinating. You really think that the attitude that I hold, about apathy in OUR union, was the cause of ALPA 1 failing? ALPA 1 failed because 50%+/- of our pilot group never joined the union, from day one. And in fact, literally worked against ALPA's efforts to secure a 1st contract.
But, this isn't about ALPA, FPA or any union by any other name. This is about our pilot group. And, the apathy that it displays. When only 15% of us are engaged enough to perform the most basic of rights, electing the person that is going to represent you, I think we have an extremely apathetic group.
You can come up with whatever excuse you want for it. But, the bottom line is, it is OUR union. It's not ALPA's or FPA's or Jungle's. It's yours and mine. And, it is up to us, the pilot group, to determine if it's a failure or a success. Only 15% of a group taking the time to elect a representative, when Sec 6 openers are just months away, seems like pretty bad judgement to me.
Would you like to sit across the negotiating table from someone that is keenly aware of the apathy we show?
From dictionary.com:
mo·ron [mawr-on, mohr-]
noun
1.
Informal . a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
But, this isn't about ALPA, FPA or any union by any other name. This is about our pilot group. And, the apathy that it displays. When only 15% of us are engaged enough to perform the most basic of rights, electing the person that is going to represent you, I think we have an extremely apathetic group.
You can come up with whatever excuse you want for it. But, the bottom line is, it is OUR union. It's not ALPA's or FPA's or Jungle's. It's yours and mine. And, it is up to us, the pilot group, to determine if it's a failure or a success. Only 15% of a group taking the time to elect a representative, when Sec 6 openers are just months away, seems like pretty bad judgement to me.
Would you like to sit across the negotiating table from someone that is keenly aware of the apathy we show?
From dictionary.com:
mo·ron [mawr-on, mohr-]
noun
1.
Informal . a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.
The word "attitude" may have been a poor choice after some thought since it is personal in nature. The statement made, and the message received though, are very much the same rhetoric that was espoused by the vocal ones and tacitly approved by the ALPA leadership at the time.
My opinion that ALPA 1 being elected with 43 percent of the crew forces vote plus USPA's percentage, for a total vote just over 50 percent, and therefore not possessing a mandate strong enough to call those who did not join immediately "morons", is just that, it's my opinion.
I observed and said at the time that this "Hoffa" type of treatment of the crew force would not turn out well. I was right and we are still suffering because of it.
My opinion is that our union, (we, us), will not be as successful as it could be until, the leadership and the membership realize that the longshoreman attitude and way of doing business does not work in this day and time.
Just one guys opinion...
07-19-2012, 05:10 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Mad Dog Capt
Posts: 226
Originally Posted by MD10PLT
Seriously, the ALPA days at FedEx are numbered. DW can look in the mirror if he would like to know who destroyed FedEx ALPA. We will never have unity ever again thanks to him, might as well just end it now, and save us all some money.
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