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11-12-2012, 04:14 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
But our system isn't progressive, it's regressive
Why do people still claim it's "progressive"? The idea of progressive taxes is that if the middle class pays say 25% of their income, the poor maybe do 12%, and the rich do 35%. Now that's just spitballing some random numbers, but that's what it's based on. "Progressive taxes" is not based on looking at the numbers after the fact
Everyone knows that the top earners shift their money around to avoid paying taxes due to the loopholes that currently exist. I mean, at least I thought everyone knew this.
Your whole argument hinges upon "our tax system is so progressive"? I just don't get it...
Why do people still claim it's "progressive"? The idea of progressive taxes is that if the middle class pays say 25% of their income, the poor maybe do 12%, and the rich do 35%. Now that's just spitballing some random numbers, but that's what it's based on. "Progressive taxes" is not based on looking at the numbers after the fact
Everyone knows that the top earners shift their money around to avoid paying taxes due to the loopholes that currently exist. I mean, at least I thought everyone knew this.
Your whole argument hinges upon "our tax system is so progressive"? I just don't get it...
You either refuse to look at the data or review it like a labrador would. It's really embarrassing for us to see you in action. But you fit right in with the Rachel Maddow crowd.
11-12-2012, 04:37 AM
#123
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
I guess if I had made enough that I could give away 3 million to my church, I too could pay "only" 13%
11-12-2012, 04:47 AM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
I'm curious how you conclude that we are, in fact, so progressive. Gov Romney, paid 13% of his income in TY 2010 and I paid around 19%. Last year he forgo a bunch of allowable deductions (that would have further lowered his % paid) and still paid a lower % than I.
I guess if I had made enough that I could give away 3 million to my church, I too could pay "only" 13%
I guess if I had made enough that I could give away 3 million to my church, I too could pay "only" 13%
The data indicates those in the bottom 90%, in the US, do not pay their fair share of the total collected. All other industrialized countries have their bottom 90% contributing a higher percentage of the total. If we have a tax increase, taxes on the bottom 90% should increase the same percentage as for the top 10%. Further analysis reveals it's not possible to raise taxes enough on such a small group as the top .5 or 1% to cover our shortfalls. A broader based approach is the only way. Deep spending cuts are the only alternative.
You might agree with that but the President and Harry Reid do not. Now is the time to write them and express your preference.
That is my point.
11-12-2012, 05:20 AM
#125
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Let me see if I can (properly ) summarize your points.
The poor don't pay enough (or any) taxes and should, to be fair and contribute to the well being of this nation pay something. I agree
The rich, being in such small numbers (relative to the vast middle class or commonly now known as the "99%ers") would not materially add to the problem of deficit reduction by the small marginal wealth that paying more tax would provide. (again agree) And as, "job creators they should continue to enjoy lower taxes to help stimulate and I guess, motivate, their effects on job creation. (strongly disagree).
So the poor should pay more, and the rich....well it doesn't matter.
) summarize your points.The poor don't pay enough (or any) taxes and should, to be fair and contribute to the well being of this nation pay something. I agree
The rich, being in such small numbers (relative to the vast middle class or commonly now known as the "99%ers") would not materially add to the problem of deficit reduction by the small marginal wealth that paying more tax would provide. (again agree) And as, "job creators they should continue to enjoy lower taxes to help stimulate and I guess, motivate, their effects on job creation. (strongly disagree).
So the poor should pay more, and the rich....well it doesn't matter.
11-12-2012, 05:23 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
I'm curious how you conclude that we are, in fact, so progressive. Gov Romney, paid 13% of his income in TY 2010 and I paid around 19%. Last year he forgo a bunch of allowable deductions (that would have further lowered his % paid) and still paid a lower % than I.
I guess if I had made enough that I could give away 3 million to my church, I too could pay "only" 13%
I guess if I had made enough that I could give away 3 million to my church, I too could pay "only" 13%
11-12-2012, 05:31 AM
#127
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Okay maybe I got the TY year wrong, is it 2009?? He seemed very determined not to let his tax records become an issue in this campaign. In this case he won the battle but lost the war. We are still in the dark, but he didn't get elected. Now its a moot point.
11-12-2012, 05:33 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Let me see if I can (properly ) summarize your points.
The poor don't pay enough (or any) taxes and should, to be fair and contribute to the well being of this nation pay something. I agree
The rich, being in such small numbers (relative to the vast middle class or commonly now known as the "99%ers") would not materially add to the problem of deficit reduction by the small marginal wealth that paying more tax would provide. (again agree) And as, "job creators they should continue to enjoy lower taxes to help stimulate and I guess, motivate, their effects on job creation. (strongly disagree).
So the poor should pay more, and the rich....well it doesn't matter.
) summarize your points.The poor don't pay enough (or any) taxes and should, to be fair and contribute to the well being of this nation pay something. I agree
The rich, being in such small numbers (relative to the vast middle class or commonly now known as the "99%ers") would not materially add to the problem of deficit reduction by the small marginal wealth that paying more tax would provide. (again agree) And as, "job creators they should continue to enjoy lower taxes to help stimulate and I guess, motivate, their effects on job creation. (strongly disagree).
So the poor should pay more, and the rich....well it doesn't matter.
To summarize. 1. It is not your money and 2. Spending has far outpaced revenue particularly in the last 4 years.
11-12-2012, 05:38 AM
#129
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Again how much of his capital gains was subject to the 35% corporate tax before it was paid? Do you want to punish Governor Romney or do you want to collect revenue for the treasury?
11-12-2012, 05:47 AM
#130
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
We all "win" to one degree or another by virtue of being American and living where we do. I find it repugnant that those who benefit the most feel entitled to further benefits that the majority can scarcely envision.
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