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-   -   Normal FedEx Approach?? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/71313-normal-fedex-approach.html)

4A2B 11-23-2012 07:58 AM


Originally Posted by TheFly (Post 1297728)
Not whining about it, but aren't turbine & large a/c supposed to be configured by 1500agl?

no, not required. I think you may be remembering FAR 91 rules for ops into class D for large turbine a/c. (1500 pattern entry, use of G/S etc). Practically though, the large majority of approaches are configured (especially gear) well above 1000'.

mike734 11-23-2012 08:16 AM

He was probably waiting for the Ground Prox to start yelling, "Too low, gear!"

ptarmigan 11-23-2012 08:19 AM

Gear needs to be down and locked early enough to get the flaps to their final setting prior to 500'. In the particular flight, the tail number is easy to see, and it won't take someone 5 minutes to pull up the line of flight and figure out who the crew was. This moves it from a FOQA event (where it would have been flagged, but protected) to non-sole source. There need to be a couple of ASAPs filed here.

Unknown Rider 11-23-2012 08:24 AM


Originally Posted by ptarmigan (Post 1297747)
Gear needs to be down and locked early enough to get the flaps to their final setting prior to 500'. In the particular flight, the tail number is easy to see, and it won't take someone 5 minutes to pull up the line of flight and figure out who the crew was. This moves it from a FOQA event (where it would have been flagged, but protected) to non-sole source. There need to be a couple of ASAPs filed here.

Too late now. Hopefully they've already done that.

4A2B 11-23-2012 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by Unknown Rider (Post 1297752)
Too late now. Hopefully they've already done that.

guessing they received a call from the ALPA Gatekeeper on this one and maybe they were encouraged to submit and ASAP if they had not already done so. Let's hope so, because as others have said big brother is watching and figuring out who's on first is JV level work. Going around is not a failure of the mission.

CATIII 11-23-2012 09:42 AM

very interesting ... I'm sure there was some kind of warning either due to flap position or altitude and no gear going off for a large part of that video.

EMBFlyer 11-23-2012 09:54 AM

Not being familiar with the MD-10/11, how far can you have the flaps out before it starts to scream at you about the gear? In the ERJ, we can have up to Flaps 22 out (Flaps 45 is the final setting) with the gear up. However, the GPWS starts bugging us at 1200' RA...and in typical Embraer fashion, it's not subtle either.

MaydayMark 11-23-2012 10:00 AM

Simple math problem?
 
Here's the way I see it ...

(yes, it's possible I have too much time on my hands and I'm bored?)

According to the clock at the bottom of the video ...

:13 seconds - gear starts down
:52 seconds - tire smoke (runway contact)

If we assume 140KIAS (typical DC-10 landing speed), that equals 236 feet/sec (no wind).

236fps x 39 seconds = 9204'

9204' / 5280 feet per mile = 1.74 miles

1.74 miles x 300 feet per mile (typical 3 degree approach) = 523'

I would call that a typical (IAW SOP) visual approach :D

Now ... what was the OP's question?

MM

4A2B 11-23-2012 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by MaydayMark (Post 1297801)
Here's the way I see it ...

(yes, it's possible I have too much time on my hands and I'm bored?)

According to the clock ay the bottom of the video ...

:13 seconds - gear starts down
:52 seconds - tire smoke (runway contact)

If we assume 140KIAS (typical DC-10 landing speed), that equals 236 feet/sec (no wind).

236fps x 39 seconds = 9204'

9204' / 5280 feet per mile = 1.74 miles

1.74 miles x 300 feet per mile (typical 3 degree approach) = 523'

I would call that a typical (IAW SOP) visual approach :D

Now ... what was the OP's question?

MM

only one problem with your rithmatic...

you start the clock when the gear "starts" down...gear doors not closed until about 15 seconds to touchdown and in my jet "gear down" is not complete until the doors lights are out. Not too mention they cant put final flaps in until the gear is down unless they don't mind more chatter on the EGPWS.

av8rmike 11-23-2012 10:35 AM


Originally Posted by 4A2B (Post 1297806)
only one problem with your rithmatic...

you start the clock when the gear "starts" down...gear doors not closed until about 15 seconds to touchdown and in my jet "gear down" is not complete until the doors lights are out. Not too mention they cant put final flaps in until the gear is down unless they don't mind more chatter on the EGPWS.

... which means they got three green and door lights out at approximately 200'. It's always interesting that people are planning to be stable if VMC at 500' vs always shooting for 1,000'. The difference (for a 757) between being stable at 1K and at 500' with a VERY low app speed is only 15 seconds. Just shoot for 1K all the time knowing you have the ability to go lower if needed in VMC. Or don't and become a FOQA story, just remember to fill out the ASAP report.


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