Pakagecheck

Rock,
Guess I am somewhat confused. If you have a separate bid pack, you can still bid the 757 lines. It just wouldn't afford you to potentially not be able to hold the etops stuff. How is that different? Although you may not want the pay, but possibly, everyone would be doing recurrent, vacation and potentially reserve at NB rates. Also as the other a/c go away and more migrate to the airplane, if it is one bid pack, they are gonna come in on top, pushing you further down. The nice 75 lines you hold might have some partial 76 flying on them and then you couldn't hold those either.

How is that better?

FXDX

Rock: Perhaps my interpretation of a combined bidpack is different than yours. It sounds to me like you think 767 lines would pay wide body and 757 lines would pay narrow.

To me a combined bidpack is the trips pay whatever the guy who bids them holds (widebody or narrow body pay), regardless of which aircraft is flown. So the top 20% of the seniority list in each seat (percentage just for argument sake) gets widebody pay but can bid whatever line they prefer, be it 757 or 767. That is a combined bidpack to me, and would be a double whammy to those chasing quality of life, which was your stated objective.

MaxKts

What do you think will happen when the other WB seats start disappearing?

MD11Fr8Dog

Why don't we just lower the 757 pay rate, that would make it go even more junior and really help your relative seniority.

TonyC

I guess I should have made this a multiple choice question.

What's the penalty for undermanning the B-767 by one pilot?

Is it

A) Two R-24 lines in the B-757 bid period package that pay the B-767 rate

B) One R-24 line in the B-757 bid period package that pays the B-767 rate

C) Less than one R-24 line in the B-757 bid period package that pays the B-767 rate



I'm not looking for the formula in the LOA -- I want to know the real monetary penalty to The Company. In other words, what is their disincentive under this LOA from undermanning the B-767?






.

Rock

In a separate bid pack I can ONLY bid the 757 lines. And unless I bid reserve or get drafted to a 76 trip, I will never fly the 76. I'm not going to find a crashpad and start bidding reserve on the off chance a rogue 76 trip gets tossed my way, and I don't take draft trips. So in a separate bidpack, I have almost zero chance of ever flying the 76.
A combined bidpack would allow me to occassionally fly a 76 trip. That's the advantage I'd gain. I would lose percentile seniority in the bidpack. But in a bidpack that contains the current 75 trips, and adds incoming 76 trips, which are going to go more senior? Someone currently bidding 30-40% in the 75 bidpack probably isn't going to see his monthly bid awards change much with an influx of more senior guys moving over to fly the 76. He'll still be flying hubturns to small midwestern airports. But every once in a while, he could break the monotony by picking up a 76 trip out of open time. That opportunity doesn't exist for him in the 76 LOA.
There would certainly be impact on bidding vacation and training, but even as THE most junior guy in the MD-11 bidpack, I was usually able to work family trips around company business. I just couldn't commit to anything on a weekly basis.

Rock

That would be my assumption. And that was the assumption of the post I first responded to.
In a combined bidpack, you get paid based on what you fly on each trip. The unanswered question was what reserve, training and vacation would pay.

Rock

When other WB seats start disappearing people will bid what they can hold at the payrate they are comfortable with. I don't really know how that would impact seniority at the higher levels of the 757 right seat.

Rock

Unless they move it to Hong Kong, I don't think it could go anymore junior.

Busboy

A combined bidpack would most likely not have widebody lines and narrowbody lines. It would have trips that consist of both 757 and 767 legs. I may be wrong, but most airlines then pay the crew the rate for the type of aircraft they actually flew on those legs.

We already gave up city purity 7 years ago...Compare bidpacks before that to now. So now, we should give up aircraft purity? No thanks.