Since 11CM is listed as -1 in the bid, they are only reducing by 1. Since 47 pilots were awarded 11CM in the bid, that means 48 were awarded something else. I don't know your specific seniority, but you need to look at all of the awards in other seats paying particular attention to the "Previous Award" column. If anyone junior to you, that is currently holding 11CM, was awarded something else, then I would agree that the bid is flawed. However, just because someone junior to you was awarded 75CM, that doesn't mean that the bid was flawed. It all depends on what seat they are coming from.

 

That's not the way the excess process works. If a pilot's seat (in this case 11CM) is declared in excess... whether that excess be -1 or -100.. a pilot holding that crew position may bid to any seat that their seniority can hold.

if FlyByNyte is bidding to relieve the excess in 11CM and has the seniority to hold 57CM.. FlyByNyte should be awarded that seat before someone else junior to FlyByNyte.

 

That's what I thought but that is not how it worked out in practice 2. Is there something weird with an excess, that I am "too junior" to bid OFF the 11? These excesses are strange...

 

Jumbo - are you sure? That doesn't sound right. If, say for example, every MEM11CA bid out to say the MEM11FO seat you're saying they could do that since almost all of them could hold that that's not the intention of the -1. Only net 1 guy will be able to bid out. As more guys bid in, then the number will rise but that's the only way it rises.

 

Here is what the union letter said:

"In order to be eligible to participate in the Excess posting, you must be bidding “FROM” a crew position that has been declared in excess. Even though you may not be currently activated in a crew position declared in excess you are a participating bidder if your currently awarded crew position is declared in excess. Any crew position with a “-1 or higher” is declared in excess. The pool of pilots participating in an excess posting only include (1) Pilots in a crew position that is declared in excess who do not have an award/assignment to a different crew position at the time of the publishing of the excess posting, and (2) Pilots who have an award/assignment to the crew position declared in excess and have not yet activated in such awarded crew position. Therefore, if you are currently activated in the crew position declared in excess, but have an award/assignment to another crew position not declared in excess, you will not be participating in the excess posting. "

and...

"My current crew position has a declared excess, what are my options?

Section 24.C.6 describes the process. There are 2 options for you if find yourself in this scenario.

You submit a Bid to Relieve (BTR): This is not only for pilots voluntarily leaving their seat; rather it is how you enter your particular standing bid choices. If you desire to leave your seat voluntarily or if you may be subjected to an involuntarily move, this type of bid will determine not only where you end up, but also equally important, it will determine the general training order “INTO” your awarded seat. If you bid ANY seat above your current crew position and you are awarded that seat, you will be considered a BTR.

You are Involuntarily Excessed (IE): If you are assigned a crew position that you bid below your current seat, or fail to bid enough choices, then you are considered to be an IE and your training order will be grouped with other pilots IE’d into the same crew position."

 

I believe fdxShark & Tuck are correct

With respect to "volunteering" to change seats, it appears the process allows you to exercise your seniority within your current seat, but not necessarily your overall seniority compared to all other seats.

 

It will take some study on your part, but look at all the seat awards.

Is anyone junior to you in your current seat moving out?

If so, then I'd agree bid processing flawed.

If not, then it appears the -1 Excess for your seat was fulfilled by the "net movement" of guys more senior to you

# Excessed = #In - #Out

Computer starts from top down to honor seat seniority and stops when # Exessed = -1 ...in your case.

 

you are 100% on this reply.

 

So an 11f/o junior to me can now hold 57C over me as junior 11C bidding to relieve?? This is the dumbest bid, or contract rules for bidding, I have ever heard of.

 

Tuck - I am confident in my answer.

And the -1 is an attempt to keep the manning levels stable in a particular seat. The -1 allows them to flush people off of the bottom of a particular list as people across the seniority system are exercising their rights to bid INTO any seat that they can hold IF their current awarded seat has been declared in excess.

In your example if all of the MEM 11CA wanted to bid themselves a pay cut; then other pilots on the seniority list would get those MEM 11CA awards based on their standing bids. And those junior people on the MEM 11FO list would be pushed off the bottom of that list and have to find other seats. And at the end of the day the MEM 11FO seat is slated to have 35 less slots than when this process began.

I think where we have a differing view of how we get to the numbers is the concept of what the numbers mean on the excess. It's not the number of people they are going to allow to leave a seat. It's the number of crew positions the company wants to have in a particular seat at the end of the process.

And here's an example to prove my point. ANC 11 FO has a posted excess of -15. If you look across all of the awards for the latest 13-03 practice bid. There are a lot more than 15 (31 actually) ANC 11FO moving to other seats. Therefore, the company is allowing more than 15 ANC 11 FO to exercise their options by seniority to leave that seat. And as those ANC 11 FO's fill into other lists they may create an excess on that list. Those on the bottom of that list get pushed off and have to find new seats. The notable exception is that a pilot can not be awarded a seat if they create an excess in the FDA and there is another thread that discusses the ramifications of that denied award.

And because 31 ANC 11 FO are leaving, there are 16 pilots that have been awarded ANC 11 FO in order to get the correct numbers after the process has been completed.