Airline Pilot Central Forums - FDX QA Observations

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Quote:

Originally Posted by skywatch (Post 1696270)

Tony, I think we agree more than we disagree, probably more than either of us would admit. And I commend you for be willing to write that much, as I am not and will not.

I will only say that I defend 3pt in his assertion that an SMS is not defined ...

...

But the point is, if a carrier says that a QA observation program is part of the SMS for that carrier, it is. I think that is the gist of my disagreement.

Perhaps we agree even more than you think. If 3pointlanding has asserted that the FedEx Express QA program is part of their SMS, I have no issue with that. Like I said before, they can put anything they want in it, including a Saturday morning 3-mile run.

The assertion that I take issue with is that the FedEx QA program is required by SMS or by IOSA. IT IS NOT REQUIRED. The function that it serves is currently served by LOSA.

They can have it if they want, but they're going to have deal with unhappy pilots. ... which may be the real purpose all along.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MacGuy2 (Post 1696298)

On a somewhat more practical aspect, I just looked at my first trip in August and saw that I have a QA observer riding from CDG to MEM with me. Not one of the Fleet Check Airmen that are generally pretty senior and often have a pretty fair amount of experience. My guy (or gal) has an 800,000+ employee number. He/she is a MD first officer, who as far as I can tell by looking at his calendar, has 1 ocean crossing (during IOE) under his belt. I'm just wondering how this pilot can provide much QA to our flight. How will he be able to relate what we're doing on the 777 to his vast experience on the MD? I'm just not sure I get what this is all about.

Of course you know 14 CFR 121.547 applies to your entire airplane, stem to stern, since FedEx decided to NOT outfit the airplane with an Intrusion Resistant Cockpit Door. (Safety is a priority, but some priorities are higher priorities. ;) ) The FO TAA only rides if you want him to ride. If I were the B-777 Captain, he would be making hotel arrangements, and maybe commercial deadhead arrangements.

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Let me take this SMS thread in a slightly different direction.

According to Management, I wasn't at a "disciplinary" but there were company lawyers and tape recorders there.

How come I heard details that I had only EVER discussed in an ASAP report? Don't get me wrong, I'm fully onboard with most of the ALPA sponsored safety programs (I find it totally UNSAT that it took FedEx so long to establish these programs!*?) ... I just didn't know that Management got to review them when they still had names on them!*?

***?

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Was your ASAP report "accepted" by the ERC?

Just for clarification, the company is on the IOSA registry and as such must comply with the IOSA Safety Recommended Practices and Standards (ISARPs).
Here is one ISARP in the Organization action of the ISM. The ISARP is repeated in each of the disciplines, FLT, MNT, CO, GRH, SEC, CAB.
Maybe I did not state it correctly but QA is a requirement of SMS as far as IOSA is concerned. It is NOT regulatory. I cannot say there is not a reference in FAA documentations but that does not mean it is not there. I also want to note that the ISARP does not mention how to conduct the program.

ORG 3.4.1 The Operator shall have a quality assurance program that provides for the auditing and evaluation of the management system, and of operations and maintenance functions, to ensure the organization is:
i) Complying with applicable regulations and standards of the Operator;
ii) Satisfying stated operational needs;
iii) Identifying areas requiring improvement;
iv) Identifying hazards to operations. [SMS] (GM) ►
Guidance
Refer to the IRM for the definition of Quality Assurance.
A quality assurance program serves to monitor, evaluate and continually improve operational safety performance, which are elements of the Safety Assurance component of the SMS framework.
Information gained from quality assurance audits can be used in the management of operational risk. Additionally, the quality assurance program could be structured to serve as a safety performance monitoring and measuring activity in an SMS. In some organizations the quality assurance program may have a different name (e.g. internal evaluation program

LOSA is a QA program. Much better too.

Gunter
Maybe maybe not, that is not for me to say. That is between your union and the company. I was just bringing up a point that SMS is an IOSA requirement and QA is part of the SMS. Until CFR Part 5 is published SMS is not a regulatory compliance requirement. I am interested in one thing though, did the company get the permission from the union prior to entering IOSA?

So you are a nonmember?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Walrus (Post 1698160)

So you are a nonmember?

He's a non-pilot. I mean, he's a retired pilot, apparently hired by The Company to work in the ASAP program. He was probably a non-member when he retired. :rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyC (Post 1696953)

Like I said before, they can put anything they want in it, including a Saturday morning 3-mile run.

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Easy to spot the guys with Air Force experience. Sounds like Tony saw that happen. Had a few commanders over the years who wanted their own run day, blues day (before the mandatory Blues Monday), or other such happy BS. Over a dozen years since coming off active duty, I still "twitch" sometimes when I remember so of the stupid stuff the fun police tried to do in Big Blue. Maybe I still need therapy….