MaydayMark

The only time I've has this happen (admittedly several years ago), we diverted from ANC to Fairbanks. The DO ACARS'd us to call him.

He then said, "I'd like to extend you guys to FAR Limits, how are you feeling?" I liked that thought process. We all agreed to continue back to Anchorage

Long day ...


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pinseeker

Again, I have had this happen in the last year and the DO released me to a legal rest.

I have no idea about the details of what happened to your friend or what he asked CE or the DO.

Pakagecheck

Pin,
I hope you are right. I originally read it your way and think that is the original intention. But, I know more than a few that didn't have the same success that you did. I hope the Union intercedes and holds the company's feet to the fire. Unfortunately, I am pessimistic.

HIFLYR

Pin

A simple call to contract enforcement at the union will confirm this. In the past I have lways been given the option to continue but the contract allows the DO to extend you. I have called the union and saldly this is the case.

GetRealDude

One word:

Fatigued.

Fedex999999

CRS has told me that once I was in the field, he could do just about whatever he wanted with my schedule. Eek!

pinseeker

I understand your pessimism. The pilots need to hold the company's feet to the contract. The Union can only intercede (i.e. support a grievance) if the pilot was harmed. Saying you agreed to fly even though you were tired is not harming the pilot. Forcing the pilot to use hours from his sick and disability bank or removing him from the remainder of the trip without pay is harming the pilot.

If the DO told me I had to fly to 16 hours because he told me to, I would point him to the section of the contract that states;

... Depending on the pilot's situation and the Duty Officer's assessment, one of the following alternatives shall be enlisted to address the issue:
(a) The pilot's duty may be revised to include some alternative duty that is at or within operational limits; or
(b) The pilot may be given a legal rest period.

If the DO still refuses, then I wouldn't hesitate to use fatigue and then grieve it with the union.

pinseeker

I agree that the DO can extend you, but you have rights under the contract as well.

If you are suppose to end an 11 hour duty day in LAX and upon arrival are told that they are going to turn you in two hours and then operate back to MEM, and the DO has approved it, would you say ok? I would contact the DO. I would explain to him that I planned my sleep on an 11 hour duty and that I don't feel it is safe to extend past the operational extension. If they can turn us quick enough to stay within the operational duty extension, I will give it a try, otherwise, I would like to go to the hotel. I would then reference the appropriate section of the contract.

If you simply ask the DO or CE whether the DO can extend you to 16 hours or not, then the correct answer is yes he can. We (pilots) need to go the extra step and ask the DO to exercise the two options available in the contract if we don't feel we can safely go beyond an operational extension.

Take it for what it's worth. I am not going to make my decisions based on what anonymous posters (myself included) on a forum tell me to do. I am going to reference the contract, and if needed, call CE.

DLax85

Very well stated

And remember, it's the Duty Offucer --- not the Schedulers

I've found that the Schedulers will passively allow you to extend your duty day yourself, but when presented with facts about the limitations in the CBA, will quickly find other solutions

They want to stay below the radar too

If it gets elevated to the DO: stay calm, state the facts, stand firm and make sure everyone knows your desire and intention to take the most prudent, safest approach

MaydayMark

I agree ... I've questioned whether "the contract allows that" on several occasions and CRS magically rebuilt the trip. I've even had them try to deadhead me back to MEM on the Company jumpseat! "Operational Emergency?" Deadheading me home AFTER a trip is NEVER an Operational emergency!*?


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