Jetjok

Falconjet,

Since you list your airline as FedEx, I don't suspect that you'll be on the street anytime in the foreseeable future. And since this airline profession is so parochial in nature (as in, "get that dead bastard out of my seat"), I don't understand your reasoning. Except to say that if you think the only reason the Age 60 rule should not be overturned, is because other airlines have guys "on the street", well then I accuse you of having a training department mentality. Because in the training department, they have a reason for everything. It's not always the right reason, but it is their reason.

By the way, if you really feel like that, you should be discouraging everyone from: accepting draft and volunteer; selling back vacation; flying when sick (with this I agree); agreeing to continue past contractual limits; etc, etc. And that goes for everyone you know at any airline. As well, you should probably not accept nor seek upgrades, because they too help keep guys "on the street."

If they overturn the Age 60 rule, I'll happily go back to my left seat and thank my lucky stars. Guys at other airlines will probably do the same thing. After all, those same guys still fly additional, and probably also do the other things that help keep guys "on the street." It's not their fault that these guys are there (on the street) in the first place. But that's only my opinion.

MaydayMark

Early onset Alzheimer's is defined as the development of the disease before the age of 65 years of age.

http://alzheimers.about.com/od/diagn...arly_onset.htm

Freightbird

If one pilot in the cockpit must be younger than 60; let it be the Capt. That way these great old guys can part their wisdom on me from the right seat................after they do the walk around.

Jetjok

Last I knew, the captain did the walk around on two person jets at UPS. It's a good thing you don't work there.

Busboy

I'd hate to try and use any logic in this discussion...But, wouldn't changing the retirement age to 65, just effect/delay our career progression by 5 years? Then, we'd be back to what it would have been. Only 5 years older?

Don't get me wrong. I personally don't give a crap what anyone's reason is for wanting to sit in the left seat past age 60. Based on my own 31 years of commercial flying experience, you'll never convince me that it is as safe, or safer, to change the age to 65. I know, I know...There are exceptions. But, since when do we formulate regulations based on the exception to the rule.

By the way, I'm one of Jet Jok's "How about if...your company went tango uniform..." guys. I'm on my 3rd major carrier.

JMO

Daniel Larusso

If you're on your 3rd major carrier, then you should know that in this business 5 years isn't neccesarily 5 years. Many of the people Falconjet refers to who are on furlough would have been captains 3 years or more ago without 9/11 and the economic downturn. Many people saw three year upgrades at companies where it took others 18-20 years to get to the same seat. We'll see how many CO people are talking about 2year upgrades if they end up in a merger-they'll be lucky to do it in 7-10 years then. Same goes for Airtran. Changing this rule would have no effect if everything stayed exactly the same for the next 5 years or if you are already in the seat you want to be in. If not, it's naive to say it would only slide things 5 years, imo. I bet you your other two major carriers made career progression promises that were far from correct as well.

Busboy

Actually, the career progression promises they made were relatively accurate. What they neglected to tell me, though, was that the progression wouldn't be at their company!!

I understand what you are saying. Maybe a better way, is for me to say that it would push everything back 5 "airline years". Kind of like dog years. Only, an airline year is a variable. But, I think the theory is solid. As, sheet is going to happen regardless of the ret. age. And, those sheety things will change progression regardless.

Having said that, furloughees will definitely get hosed even more than they already are. Possibly even reach the end of the recall time, and drop off the list? And, I don't think our families will delay their growth, education, etc. for 5 "airline years".

Basically, I'm just trying to convince myself that the world is not going to end when they change it. I'm resigned to the fact, that it is probably going to change, before I reach 60, whether I like it, or not.

Hey! How's this for another shot at an optimistic angle? It won't actually be 5 "airline years". As, some of us will leave at 60, others will die between 60 and 65 and I'm sure more than a few will have to go out on a medical. Deaths and disabilities are sure to be at a much higher rate than the under 60pilots. Yah, that's it!! They'll all get sick and die. Something to look forward to, eh?

Jetjok

As well, some will leave before they're 60 and others will medical out or pass away by the time they're 60, so things are not as bad as they seem. As they told me at the cancer hospital, "nobody is getting out of this life alive", so the longer you live the bigger chance you have of dying (sooner). Another technique is for you to always buy your captain a large breakfast with loads of eggs and bacon. Also never discourage him from getting that ultra-fast Harley. Or maybe you should give up your 3rd day job and become a mortician. Only problem is that right after you retrain, they'll probably come up with some medications that will allow us all to live to 120. Then you can ***** about that. How's that for positive spin.

Also I don't get your point of guys on furlough "reaching the end of the recall time." I guess that you're referring to guys passing up returning to work so that they can pursue other opportunities and then at their leisure, go back to their airline. I thought that a furlough could last almost forever. It's the recall that has a finite time frame. Is this correct? And if so, then they should exercise their option to return to work as soon as they're called, or not. Their choice. But then don't complain that they are running out of "time." Something about having ones cake and eating it too.

Daniel Larusso

It's not really bright to make unequivocal statements about something you clearly don't have all the details about. Some airlines have recall rights that go on forever, others have limits on them that are typically between 5-10 years from date of furlough. Even at the carriers with bypass options, it's not as simple as you put it. Everyone hears the rumors of companies offering recall and having to go through huge portions of the list to fill the classes due to bypasses. While that is true to a degree, the point that is often missed is that the total number of recalls thus far is nowhere near the total number of people on furlough. I think UsAir has brought back between 50-100 pilots of I think @ 1800 or so on the street. UA has brought back @500-600 of @2200 total. AA has probably brought back 60 out of number equaling Texas' population. So even if everybody took the recall at the first shot, there would still be a ton of guys out there on the street stuck for 5 more years because these airlines are recalling for retirements and a touch of schedule stability not growth. Medicals would make a dent in that number but it's probably statistically insignificant to those who have been out for 5 year or more already and facing a 10 year recall deadline. The number of jobs at FX, UPS, WN in the last few years don't come close to equaling the number of furloughees and obviously these jobs go to all types of pilots not just furloughees. Mergers won't make any of this better.

Sluggo_63

This entitlement mentality is the problem, in my opinion. The over 60 crowd still believes it's their left seat. That seat wasn't yours since the day you turned 60.

Your quote above should say, "I'll happily go back to someone else's left seat and thank my lucky stars."