Age 60
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
[QUOTE=Nashmd11
The younger pilots at Airlines with FE's are really going to take a hit from this. Because the FE's are still employed by the Airlines. If I'm reading this correct. UPS has over 250 PFE's, that's alot of CA seats. Hell we have some in there mid 70's! They won't leave. [/QUOTE]
First of all, if the law is changed to 65, it doesn't effect anyone over that ("mid 70's") age, it will however, effect everyone on the seniority list in all seats. If an over-60 guy elects to retrain (and the company allows him to do so) from his currently held s/o seat, back to his previous window seat (either capt or f/o), then guys below his seniority number will be somehow effected. It's also important to remember that according to the FAA, a person is considered "current" for up to (I believe) 2 years, which means that if I've turned 60 in March of '06, then I would be current, and therefore eligible to return to my previous seat, with a simulator and check ride, up until March of '08. After that I'd have to go through training again. Theoretically anyway.
As for the PFE's at UPS, I believe that they are just that. Professional Engineers, and not pilots, I could be wrong, but traditionally, a PFE has been doing that job his entire career and wouldn't know the first thing about being a captain or f/o, for that matter.
At FedEx, there should be enough fleet additions to not hurt anyone too badly. Of course, moving back only one seniority number can be a very big deal, but usually not in growth times. That's not to say that people won't be effected, because they will. Just ask the guy who came up to me a few months ago and confronted me for "taking his line."
The younger pilots at Airlines with FE's are really going to take a hit from this. Because the FE's are still employed by the Airlines. If I'm reading this correct. UPS has over 250 PFE's, that's alot of CA seats. Hell we have some in there mid 70's! They won't leave. [/QUOTE]
Good point. That really sucks for anyone working at FedEx, UPS, and other major cargo airlines with over 60 flight engineers. Do you think this will either:
1) Stagnate growth for a long time
2) Cause pilots to be displaced (widebody to narrowbody, or captain to FO)
If there are 250 over 60 FE's at UPS, it seems to me that would cause displacements. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether option #1 or option #2 are more likely.
1) Stagnate growth for a long time
2) Cause pilots to be displaced (widebody to narrowbody, or captain to FO)
If there are 250 over 60 FE's at UPS, it seems to me that would cause displacements. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether option #1 or option #2 are more likely.
As for the PFE's at UPS, I believe that they are just that. Professional Engineers, and not pilots, I could be wrong, but traditionally, a PFE has been doing that job his entire career and wouldn't know the first thing about being a captain or f/o, for that matter.
At FedEx, there should be enough fleet additions to not hurt anyone too badly. Of course, moving back only one seniority number can be a very big deal, but usually not in growth times. That's not to say that people won't be effected, because they will. Just ask the guy who came up to me a few months ago and confronted me for "taking his line."
#22
I believe the company will do the right thing by these over 60 S/Os, sorry I'm not as confident the same will hold true for ALPA. I hope I'm wrong on that point. The EEOC may have something to say about any restriction on the age 60+ S/Os returning to either the left or right seat.
#23
You've never given ALPA credit for doing the "right thing." Not ever! Somehow I'm just not very surprised that you are taking yet another opportunity to bash ALPA AGAIN.
Maybe you can help educate us "young 'uns" George. The current contract says that retirement age is 60. "If" the FAA raises the retirement age, why wouldn't the company have to negotiate with ALPA as to what would happen to the "grandpa pilots?"
Mark
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: MD-11 Capt
Posts: 210
#25
George, George, George ...
You've never given ALPA credit for doing the "right thing." Not ever! Somehow I'm just not very surprised that you are taking yet another opportunity to bash ALPA AGAIN.
Maybe you can help educate us "young 'uns" George. The current contract says that retirement age is 60. "If" the FAA raises the retirement age, why wouldn't the company have to negotiate with ALPA as to what would happen to the "grandpa pilots?"
Mark
You've never given ALPA credit for doing the "right thing." Not ever! Somehow I'm just not very surprised that you are taking yet another opportunity to bash ALPA AGAIN.
Maybe you can help educate us "young 'uns" George. The current contract says that retirement age is 60. "If" the FAA raises the retirement age, why wouldn't the company have to negotiate with ALPA as to what would happen to the "grandpa pilots?"
Mark
Now I realize that there are a number of age bigots that have made statements against those over the age of 60 in the cockpit. They are not much different that those that opposed minorities and women.
Last edited by FoxHunter; 01-13-2007 at 08:09 PM.
#27
TO some degree I agree with FoxH. I personnally am opposed to raising the age limit but I am also opposed to those who make blatant disrespectful comments that go beyond a disagreement on the issue. The limit will be raised. That's the reality. We ought to deal with the reality of that first. Debating all of the issues related to it is healthy.
#29
It's too bad that all the growth and upgrades at FedEx and UPS over the last several years can be compromised by changing this rule. Oh well. Looks like:
More time on reserve
More time as FO
More time at lower pay
More crappy schedules
Bottom line...If age 60 changes, every pilot under 60 will have to do more work to earn the same amount of money. And I have no desire to be flying anything else but a Cessna-172 with my grandson in back when I am 60!
More time on reserve
More time as FO
More time at lower pay
More crappy schedules
Bottom line...If age 60 changes, every pilot under 60 will have to do more work to earn the same amount of money. And I have no desire to be flying anything else but a Cessna-172 with my grandson in back when I am 60!
#30
Part Time Employee
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Posts: 1,918
Let him ride upfront! how's he supposed to learn?
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