FDX vs AA Pay Rates...
02-27-2015 | 03:12 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: 11 Left Side
First of all, after flying fighters for a quarter of a century, I have a lot of self-respect, because if nothing else, it came with the territory. That said, I never said that commercial pilots don't have specialized skills. What I said was that the job of flying aircraft is not that hard. If you don't believe that, I believe you, and suggest that you get better, to where it's not that hard. Because it's not.
What I didn't say, and what makes the job hard, is everything else that goes along with the job, like staying up all night, through half a dozen time zone changes, only to have to land at an airport where English might be the second or third language. Like the Company preaching we fly a "standard aircraft", while changing the standards whenever they care to. Like doing your best, while those around you are floundering like beached whales. The list of distractions and obligations associated with doing the job are endless. However, the job of flying is not.
Skypig, You say: "The vast majority of pilots...at all airlines....possess much more talent, intelligence and motivation than you seem to believe is required to do this job. Yes, there are those stellar few who only put forth the minimum (maybe that is there best)." Where do you get the idea that I think that? I've been at 3 airlines in my career and find pilots in general are a very highly motivated and intelligent group. These attributes don't make the job any harder. Quite the contrary, they make it easier, for all the logical reasons. Those lacking the above stated attributes either don't make it past initial qualifications, or can't/won't upgrade, and usually are hard to fly with.
You say: "We should be adequately compensated for our skills, our work rules should be legitimate, without loopholes and not a firefight every time scheduling feigns ignorance about them or the contract. (or just violates the contract and cancels pairings with no notification at all...and all the lost pay we incur when crew pay can't seem to pull up the revisions or our duty time lol)." Agreed!
In conclusion, what I've said about the difficulty of the job doesn't mean a hill of beans. The issue here is that this pilot group needs to be united, in lockstep, solidly behind the MEC and the Negotiating Committee. No individual deals; no secret handshakes; no individual agendas; etc, etc. Without that, you might as well settle in, because it's going to be a long haul before this pilot group sees a contract that is worthy of them.
And one final note, Skypig, you might think about changing your screen name to something that radiates professionalism, rather than radiating dirt and oink, oink sounds.
Finally, and I really mean it this time, it doesn't matter what the non-piloting employees think, because you're negotiating with management, not the rampers, nor the box loaders, nor any other group. The managers know your true worth. They are waiting for you to prove it to them, because if you can't, you won't get the contract that this group surly deserves, which is an industry leading contract, in all aspects.
JJ
What I didn't say, and what makes the job hard, is everything else that goes along with the job, like staying up all night, through half a dozen time zone changes, only to have to land at an airport where English might be the second or third language. Like the Company preaching we fly a "standard aircraft", while changing the standards whenever they care to. Like doing your best, while those around you are floundering like beached whales. The list of distractions and obligations associated with doing the job are endless. However, the job of flying is not.
Skypig, You say: "The vast majority of pilots...at all airlines....possess much more talent, intelligence and motivation than you seem to believe is required to do this job. Yes, there are those stellar few who only put forth the minimum (maybe that is there best)." Where do you get the idea that I think that? I've been at 3 airlines in my career and find pilots in general are a very highly motivated and intelligent group. These attributes don't make the job any harder. Quite the contrary, they make it easier, for all the logical reasons. Those lacking the above stated attributes either don't make it past initial qualifications, or can't/won't upgrade, and usually are hard to fly with.
You say: "We should be adequately compensated for our skills, our work rules should be legitimate, without loopholes and not a firefight every time scheduling feigns ignorance about them or the contract. (or just violates the contract and cancels pairings with no notification at all...and all the lost pay we incur when crew pay can't seem to pull up the revisions or our duty time lol)." Agreed!
In conclusion, what I've said about the difficulty of the job doesn't mean a hill of beans. The issue here is that this pilot group needs to be united, in lockstep, solidly behind the MEC and the Negotiating Committee. No individual deals; no secret handshakes; no individual agendas; etc, etc. Without that, you might as well settle in, because it's going to be a long haul before this pilot group sees a contract that is worthy of them.
And one final note, Skypig, you might think about changing your screen name to something that radiates professionalism, rather than radiating dirt and oink, oink sounds.
Finally, and I really mean it this time, it doesn't matter what the non-piloting employees think, because you're negotiating with management, not the rampers, nor the box loaders, nor any other group. The managers know your true worth. They are waiting for you to prove it to them, because if you can't, you won't get the contract that this group surly deserves, which is an industry leading contract, in all aspects.
JJ
I don't know why you assume my screen name is supposed to meet some minimal standard that you perceive needs to be adhered to. Your jab at that was childish, sorry but that's how it comes off.
Being an ex fighter pilot, you should know there are a myriad of call signs out there...
Your reply pretty much supported what I was trying to get out there. It's more than just passing your physical, annual check rides and showing up on time...you did a great job making that clear this time.
I always enjoy reading your responses, they are usually always well thought out and informative. I'm sorry if your were offended by my reply. But, the comment you made needed to be clarified.
And one more point, management may know what we are worth. I want to assure you, we have already proven to management our worth. We do it every night. The problem is simple, they are trying to get something for for far less than its worth.
And It does matter what the non pilot employees think, because management has managed to polarize every group in this company so that in an effort to make sure we don't support each other when it comes to labor related issues...they don't want us supporting each other. and I'm not talking about supporting each other operationally. We do that well...at least when the weather is good in memphis. Lol.
Ok, I'm done. Again, my apologies for getting under your skin JJ. Btw, there are a lot of us out here with a lot of experience...Oh, it might not look like it but, my sky pig was a hand painted work of art by a pretty talented guy, it in no way is unprofessional...that is what you old timers used to call nose art ha ha. Have a good one.
Last edited by skypig; 02-27-2015 at 03:24 PM.
02-27-2015 | 03:19 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
From: 11 Left Side
I am always there early and have completely looked things over before show time, unless it's an odd situation and I just landed and am running to make my show time.
However, it is not that unusual for an FO to show up at the computer right at show time, not having looked at a thing. It's not like I expect the FO to have everything highlighted and a taxi diagram printed out, with X's through the closed taxiways--though some do. But waiting till the last minute, and then spending 30 seconds browsing through the flight plan and wx---I know you aren't doing a very good job looking at it, and backing me up.
However, it is not that unusual for an FO to show up at the computer right at show time, not having looked at a thing. It's not like I expect the FO to have everything highlighted and a taxi diagram printed out, with X's through the closed taxiways--though some do. But waiting till the last minute, and then spending 30 seconds browsing through the flight plan and wx---I know you aren't doing a very good job looking at it, and backing me up.
02-27-2015 | 04:17 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 0
That's why it's called show time brother, stop giving the company your time for free. neither the FO or the Captain are unprofessional for showing up at show time. Somehow, we lost the perspective on this. The company has determined that we only need an hour prior to push. And let's face it, usually it only takes a few minutes to read and understand the release and MELs.
I don't look at things in advance for the company. I do it for myself. Occasionally there are things that take additional time to look over and consider, and I choose not to rush, just because it all must be done on company time. I try not to let things happen to me, and often am the one calling GOC saying we need to do this, that is going to be a problem, etc. If you wait till the last minute to look things over, you can easily miss something important. And that is what I consider professionalism. I don't care whether it's on company time or not. As an FO, if you show up at the last second, start BSing with your buds, give the paperwork a cursory, quick glance, you really aren't helping the captain one bit.
I guarantee you that my FO's appreciate that I look things over in advance, coordinate for a later show time if the inbound aircraft is very late, or they're working a serious maintenance problem. More time at the hotel instead of sitting at the ramp, instead of just going out to sit and wait. This job is so much better if you are proactive, whether it is on company time or not.
02-27-2015 | 05:50 PM
#85
Part Time Employee
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 0
From: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
I don't look at things in advance for the company. I do it for myself. Occasionally there are things that take additional time to look over and consider, and I choose not to rush, just because it all must be done on company time. I try not to let things happen to me, and often am the one calling GOC saying we need to do this, that is going to be a problem, etc.
I guarantee you that my FO's appreciate that I look things over in advance, coordinate for a later show time if the inbound aircraft is very late, or they're working a serious maintenance problem. More time at the hotel instead of sitting at the ramp, instead of just going out to sit and wait. This job is so much better if you are proactive, whether it is on company time or not.
02-27-2015 | 06:12 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 0
MaxKts, maybe you'll get it when you upgrade. If you choose to have no pride in what you do, then that's certainly your own business. I appreciate that most of my FO's take the time to prepare when it's necessary, and very few of them have a lackadaisical attitude. Most of them seem to have my back, which I am very grateful for, and I certainly have theirs.
02-27-2015 | 06:36 PM
#87
Part Time Employee
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 0
From: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
MaxKts, maybe you'll get it when you upgrade. If you choose to have no pride in what you do, then that's certainly your own business. I appreciate that most of my FO's take the time to prepare when it's necessary, and very few of them have a lackadaisical attitude. Most of them seem to have my back, which I am very grateful for, and I certainly have theirs.
I do have pride in what I do - I just don't try to make it harder than it is; for myself or my FO.
I expect my FO to show up on time and we walk when we are ready!
02-27-2015 | 06:50 PM
#88
Organizational Learning
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,948
Likes: 0
From: Directly behind the combiner
That sounds pretty pompous. Are you sure your FOs appreciate that?
So, if your FO was on reserve, got called at the last minute, was given late-call parking, and he shows up 30 seconds before show time, he has no pride in what he does?
I think you should reconsider.
I do my best to stay current on regulations, procedures, and even current interest items for flying in general, and the airplane I fly specifically. I'll make sure I'm familiar with the countries and airports I plan to fly to.
But I don't need to look for a Flight Plan for my for my specific flight until Show Time. 1 hour prior to scheduled Block Out time is the time I'm required to show and check in, and it's the time the release is supposed to be completed by GOC. At that point, I've got ten minutes before I'm supposed to request a fuel uplift, if needed. If you can't accomplish a review of the flight plan and weather in 10 minutes, maybe YOU need to show up early -- don't assume your FO needs the same.
I know a Captain and FO who were recently scheduled to deadhead out of Memphis, who showed early, got to the passenger terminal early, and learned that the scheduled flight was cancelled. They called scheduling 2 minutes prior to show time to let them know. Their deadhead was cancelled, changed to depart the next day, and their pairing revised. They got ZERO credit for showing up for their schedule trip because it was changed prior to show time. At 2 minutes prior to show time they weren't approaching "the last minute." At 2 minutes prior to show time they had not started the first minute.
If it's not good enough for show pay, then it's not The Company's time -- it's mine. I'll enjoy a cup of coffee and socializing with friends. We'll check in at show time, and then accomplish our jobs professionally, thoroughly and deliberately, without rushing or cutting corners. We'll block out when we block out, safely.
It puzzles me how people can be so concerned about others picking up disputed pairings and flying volunteer or draft trips, but don't give a second thought to working for free. How does working for free show pride or professionalism?
.
I think you should reconsider.
I do my best to stay current on regulations, procedures, and even current interest items for flying in general, and the airplane I fly specifically. I'll make sure I'm familiar with the countries and airports I plan to fly to.
But I don't need to look for a Flight Plan for my for my specific flight until Show Time. 1 hour prior to scheduled Block Out time is the time I'm required to show and check in, and it's the time the release is supposed to be completed by GOC. At that point, I've got ten minutes before I'm supposed to request a fuel uplift, if needed. If you can't accomplish a review of the flight plan and weather in 10 minutes, maybe YOU need to show up early -- don't assume your FO needs the same.
I know a Captain and FO who were recently scheduled to deadhead out of Memphis, who showed early, got to the passenger terminal early, and learned that the scheduled flight was cancelled. They called scheduling 2 minutes prior to show time to let them know. Their deadhead was cancelled, changed to depart the next day, and their pairing revised. They got ZERO credit for showing up for their schedule trip because it was changed prior to show time. At 2 minutes prior to show time they weren't approaching "the last minute." At 2 minutes prior to show time they had not started the first minute.
If it's not good enough for show pay, then it's not The Company's time -- it's mine. I'll enjoy a cup of coffee and socializing with friends. We'll check in at show time, and then accomplish our jobs professionally, thoroughly and deliberately, without rushing or cutting corners. We'll block out when we block out, safely.
It puzzles me how people can be so concerned about others picking up disputed pairings and flying volunteer or draft trips, but don't give a second thought to working for free. How does working for free show pride or professionalism?
.
02-27-2015 | 07:06 PM
#89
Banned
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
From: 757 Capt
No reason to even discuss the FDX contract. It can (and is) basically suspended for cataclysmic events like frost. Or individually if the weather is bad where you're going. I wouldn't tell my worst enemy to go there at this point.
Pipe
Pipe
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
