CactusCrew

I'll only address some of your questions, and its just one opinion:

Union leadership, not the pilot group. Good faith effort, could probably be determined by an arbitrator. SCOPE issues go directly to expedited arbitration, this won't drag out for months.

I won't pretend to know the consensus of our group. But none of us should see this as a WGA problem, we know very well that the issue is with UPS, not your pilots. So expect the politeness to continue.

As you said, it may be a "small profile", but it doesn't sit well with me even if it was one jet. I'd be surprised if it just gets "brushed along".

Like you said, even you don't want to see contracts and benefits at a place like UPS deteriorate. I didn't leave the pax industry after 20 years, watching the proliferation of RJs and regional airlines, to casually sit back and watch a similar thing happen at UPS. I doubt that I am the only one here at Brown that feels this way.

Good Luck. It should be an interesting year

Pilot7576

What if ups bought Western Global...wouldn't that solve the scope problem?

CactusCrew

It could solve one, and create another problem.

WinggedHussars

Noted. I appreciate your take on things. I appreciate your crews being so friendly to us as well and recognizeing its not our issue. We are just flying wherever theres business to had and the pilots are just flying where we're toldto fly. It's not like we're vultures circling while your down. Thats the attitude im used to seeing where i came from. If your company is doing any flying that another company's pilots feel belong to them, justified or not, it gets taken out on you... in the jumpseat, in the parking lot, on the shuttle, wherever.

There is alot of juvenile unprofessionalism out there in the regional airlines i guess. Oddly enough, typically coming form folkes much older than myself.

In retrospect, i think there are alot of jaded pilots at the regionals too.

wjcandee

Maybe it's just me, and I'm missing something, but it seems to me that there are plenty of lessors who would fall all over themselves to do a short-term MD11F dry lease of 1-2 years to UPS. Hell, even The Neffs have some unused MD11Fs sitting around that they could dry-lease, rather than wet-lease, to UPS. And pretty ricky-tick at that.

Yes, it would probably cost UPS more to bring them up to UPS standards, get them on the certificate, and arrange to crew them from within UPS than it does to wet-lease them from The Neffs.

But that doesn't matter. Cost isn't the issue under the contract.

And, yes, the MD11 is probably not the optimal aircraft these days and the total cost of an MD11 wet-leased from The Neffs probably is low enough to be comparable to a UPS-operated 767-300, which is possibly what the wet-leasing is intended to cover: the time it takes to convert those three ex-JAL 767s that UPS purchased and which are now waiting for conversion slots at QPG or TPE.

But, again, cost isn't the issue under the contract. Availability is.

Sitting in my very-comfortable armchair-CEO seat (in other words -- what the hell do I know?), the situation seems to speak more of lassitude than anything else. As long as WGA can muster sufficient reliability, it's a hell of a lot easier to pick up the phone and leave the legwork to them.

But that's not the issue under the contract.

That said, the contract's wording that consent "will not unreasonably be withheld" is often interpreted in a way that doesn't provide a lot of protection for the party that has the right to consent. Last time I looked at Florida law on that phrase, for example, that state's courts interpret that language to mean that the party must consent if there is any commercially-reasonable basis for the request. That sure isn't what those words sound like, but that's what at least Florida courts think they mean. And that's usually pretty-easy to show. Me, personally, I would prefer to see language that instead said something like, "The Association will be under no obligation to consent unless and until the Company demonstrates that it has made a good-faith and expeditious effort to..."

That might make things more interesting.

captjns

You have nothing to worry about if UPS purchases WG. UPS has a track record of purchasing operations only. Employees are sent packing.

Challenge Air Cargo, an airline based in MIA early 2000s.

Menlo Solutions, née Emery Air Freight (KDAY)... purchased in 2005, then closed down the sort shortly after the purchase, as it was cutting into their business plan.

FR8Dog7

Here is the problem with the new generation of pilots.


https://www.facebook.com/smizzymusic...4718480226427/

gumpscheck

Blah Blah Blah.
Every generation complains about the previous generation in the same way. I remember years ago when I joined the Air Force the “old timers” used to complain about the us the FNG’s in the same way. The Millenials, the Gen X’s, and the Baby Boomers are no different. We are all human and to have high expectations is human nature. And to whine about “the good old days” is also human nature.

24601

Has the UPS Union started a grievance yet? Will they?

BoilerUP

No, because as of yet there has not been a violation.

I hesitate to speak in absolutes, but if the IPA does not agree to subcontracting beyond the 45 day limit (late March) and the company does so anyway, a grievance is practically certain.

Lots of pieces moving on the chessboard right now...