[QUOTE=Norcal-G4;106613]I'm looking for a little advice from some of you well seasoned FedEx or UPS pilots.

I'm trying to figure out if I should continue with my great corporate flying job or make the move to FedEx or UPS.

If you were in my shoes and knowing what you all know about cargo flying, what would you do??

Would you consider taking the big initial pay cut and make the move to FedEx or UPS??


Not a cargo guy here, but spent 30 years flying heavy Boeings. I don't think you can ever make up the money you would lose by changing when you figure what the value of the money would be if you invested 75K of what you earn each year for the next ten years. It could take that long before your airline earnings catch what you are making now and would likely be increased to over that time. In the mean time if you have job security and like your boss I doubt you will be treated with near as much respect at any airline as you get flying corporate..........

 

Magenta has some great points NorCal. Do you want to leave Northern California, or will you be ok with commuting? It would take something, or someone, VERY special to make me leave. Even then, I don't think I could ever leave permanently.

Ok, now fess up, which local Silicon Valley billionaire are you flying for?

 

With all of the talk of upping the age to 65, there IS NO reason to have a B-Plan. I don't like this notion any more that the rest of you. Keep the faith.
fbh
P.S. Our contract refers to " the normal retirement age",...no mention of a specific number.

 

SkyChica,
NorCal is great, but I would move close to a domicile for QOL (must include some good outdoor activities), that’s what it’s all about. If you make 150K or 220K, how much more money do you really need to be happy?

Like many pilots, I grew up wanting to fly heavy’s all over the world, but due to the past aviation environment or maybe timing, I ended up flying corporate jets all over the world and it’s great.
Most would agree that international flying is more difficult, but in my opinion it’s more rewarding. The challenge and sense of accomplishment of flying an aircraft halfway around the world with your crew….is? Rewarding and I enjoy it.

So my second question would be:
Generally speaking, are most of you FedEx and UPS pilots happy? Do you enjoy your work? Do drive home at the end of a trip and say to yourself… “that was awesome!”? or do you consider your job as “just a nice paycheck”? No disrespect intended, but some pilots consider flying as “just a paycheck”

Skygirl, sorry but I can’t say who I fly for or specifically where we go. In bizav it’s common practice not to talk about it… sorry. The security detail might be on my tail ;-)

Thanks for all your input, this has been educational.

 

I know Norcal, I was just playing with ya. I've worked under similar circumstances, and for similar people. We may have even worked with some of the same people.
Good luck with your decision making. I would follow what your heart and gut tells you to do. As I sit here watching the sun rise over the Bay, I know it would have to be a REALLY good thing to make me leave!

 

If you have flown the "personal" side of corporate aviation...then you would know that "Discresion" is very, very important.

Norcal...on your side of things...when I was 23 and talking with a "personal" outfit in the Northwest I could not believe that they would want to hire me...this was thier response: "We can teach anyone to fly how we want them to...but can we hang out for 2 weeks in Europe and have a great time? If we don't like hanging out with you who cares how great you can fly."

At the airlines they have the opposite approach...but I can say in the years that I have been at FDX the pilots I didn't have a good time with I can count on one hand. It is not quite the same but when you walk away from a trip...you might have had the time of your life...and the other guys were locked in thier room the entire time.

In your corporate world you are exposed to circles of people and experiences that very few would every be a part of. At an airline...an airport is an airport, hotel a hotel...its all the same after a bit...but it is the BEST JOB IN THE WORLD!

 

Lots of valid points, it's your call. Ask yourself the long-term picture, 30 years from now when it's retirement time. You've got 30+ years of flying left. What company do you work for now and how long have they've had a flight department? Are they making money? What's going to happen when the next recession hits or the company gets bought out by someone else?

UPS and FedEx are hear to stay, and when you look at growth and expansion in the cargo industry, only good things can happen. Both are financially strong, making record profits each quarter. How many airline can say that. Each company will keep growing. 30 years from now, there's no doubt big brown and purple will still be here moving boxes around the world. With the far east and internet craze going on, there is no limit to these two freight giants.

Good luck.

 

You obviously have information that I didn't when responding to his query. I was going on the assumption that:

1) FedEx has (X+Y) airplanes.

2) (X) airplanes are manned by 2-man crews

3) (Y) airplanes by 3-man crews.

The problems to be solved were:

1) "If FedEx has 4,862 pilots, how many are members of 3-man crews?

2) "How many pilots would be required if the (Y) airplanes were to be replaced by (X) type airplanes that did 1.2 times the work?"

It was basic high school math-type stuff. My math in this case was OK, but my underlying assumptions were fuzzy. The answer I gave would have meant that FedEx was staffing their 727's in domestic service at almost 7 crews per airplane, which is ridiculous. Clearly, that doesn't pass the "reasonableness test" that should be the final step in any calculation. Your numbers are probably closer to the truth of the matter than mine, although they still reflect a "redundency" of several hundred jobs.

I DO think that overall growth in this industry is slowing from the 8-16% it's been for the last 15 years to about 5%. True, the International side is doing OK, but there are a LOT of entities out there that are available to fly it.* During this time of greatest growth, it still took about 6 years at either carrier to make left seat, so my prediction of 10 years in the future may not be so off-the-mark.

In any case, what we're presented with here is some kid who's in his early 30's, flying a G-V half the month for 175K/yr. That he has the ball$ to ask if he coud find a better gig flying boxes for somebody else leaves me nearly speechless.

He should be ashamed of himself...


* How many of the 747F's currently on order are going to carriers other than FE or UPS, or to other countries altogether? For that matter, how many cargo ships serving the world trade through U.S ports are of U.S registry?

 

Yo NORCAL,
straight answer: I love my job! go to work happy everytime...yes, even at 0300 in KIX, or ICN, or where ever. I hear you on the widebody thing, and I hope you make the right decision. At least your in an enviable position of having a good job; there's alot of unlucky shmoes that would kill to even have half your job. So...good luck with your decision.
Z

 

Norcal,

I agree with BigWatchPilot's assessment of FedEx. In fact in the interview process, I believe they are looking at you to see how you handle yourself and if (in their mind) you would be a good guy to spend a week or two with in the cockpit, flying around the world, and socially, after flying. Because once you're out there, you are basically alone with your fellow crewmembers.

The corporate culture here at FedEx is a very nice one, at least relative to other freight carrying airlines. In my opinion, it is night and day different from the culture at UPS. (Before you UPS'ers hammer me, understand 2 things: first, I worked there as a pilot; and secondly, I still have friends there whom I keep in touch with.) At FedEx, for the most part, everyone tries to get along. We have very few managers who try to rule by intimidation (discounting Fred's red letters), and when I've had a problem, either personal (family member or myself getting sick), or a professional issue, I've always found that everyone comes to your aid. (Others' circumstances and experiences may vary.)

At any rate, you have a decision as to whether you want to continue to cater to a person of a few people, or just show up for your trips, fly them, have the best time you can, finish your trip, and then go home and enjoy your time off, with family and friends. FedEx and UPS can offer a good, secure (if there's such a thing) future, one that will, over time compensate you well. It is a really good job.

And as for our 727's going away.....When the very last 757/MD-11/A-300 is flown to a bone yard somewhere, a 727 freighter and crew will fly those pilots back to planet Mempho.