DLax85

👆👆👆 What he said!

HIFLYR

I do not believe that for a second! The original bill said you had to be less than 60 at DOS and still employed at your carrier for you to be able to go to 65, there was no retro-activity. I am talking about the original bill before ALPA lobbied to have the language changed.

FXDX

It seems that Tony is peeved that the company has to follow the law (which they have to do regardless of what our CBA says) and change the "normal" retirement age to 62, even though they are promising to make it cost neutral to anybody who retires in the normal fashion (starts their benefits right away).

Yet he worships the d-nozzles at ALPA and our own DW who gleefully brought us the change to age 65, and cost many of us thousands of dollars in potential earnings due to stagnation.

Puzzling.

Something to ponder while riding in a lie flat seat.

busdriver12

Last three posts +1.

I feel like no matter how old I get, I'm going to be junior forever. I'm always going to struggle to get Christmas off, always going to spend my life trip trading. The age 65 change screwed so many of us.

machz990

[QUOTE=HIFLYR;2027699]Hopefully attached are pics (I couldn't get both cabins in one screenshot) of a UAL 747 First Class and Business Class cabin. My seat is "1" in First (bottom link). I've traveled in Business and it's no comparison. I'm tall and the business seats are barely wider (3") than coach. I was on the isle and thought I was OK but the man next to me had to get up at least 4-5 times and he wouldn't climb over so I had to bring my seat to full upright and get out into the isle so he could go to the bathroom. How much sleep do you think I got? I gave up and watched movies until I was stupid tired.

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps2bkxzhtk.png

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/k...ps6n4yo1wz.png

727C47

First world problems : )

BlackKnight

Next TA we need to put in for this...

New Airliner Seat is All Window
http://www.weather.com/news/trending...l-editor-picks

Busboy

Well, OK. I'm surprised ALPA didn't call you to defend them in any of the lawsuits concerning the FTEPA, then. As all the retired guys were suing ALPA for just the opposite of what most of you, here at FDX, believe. ALPA inserted language to keep all the age 60-65 retired pilots from returning.

I'm sorry to keep hammering at this...But, I think it's an important point concerning how the final language of the law came about. We(including me) all biatch about our FE's being allowed to come back to the front seat...But, it would have been much worse for those of us still active, without ALPAs input.

From this article, pilots-file-with-supreme-court-in-age-discrimination-case, by a lawyer that took a case to the Supreme Court. (The "senior pilots", he refers to were already RETIRED):

"Members thought that they had corrected the problem with the enactment of FTEPA, but many members did not know that Oberstar had inserted the provision drafted by ALPA. That provision said that senior pilots could return to work but could not claim any of their accrued benefits, seniority, or status. Due to the way that this industry is structured, that poison pill provision was an effective bar on employment. Even if hired in their sixties, these pilots would have to go to the end of the line — behind ALPA members. Many were left without health insurance or income to support their families.

The ALPA provision states:

The Fairness for Experienced Pilots Act 49 U.S.C. § 44729(e)(1):

1) NONRETROACTIVITY- No person who has attained 60 years of age before the date of enactment of this section may serve as a pilot for an air carrier engaged in covered operations unless–
(A) such person is in the employment of that air carrier in such operations on such date of enactment as a required flight deck crew member; or
(B) such person is newly hired by an air carrier as a pilot on or after such date of enactment without credit for prior seniority or prior longevity for benefits or other terms related to length of service prior to the date of rehire under any labor agreement or employment policies of the air carrier.

ALPA openly admitted that it drafted the provision and had Oberstar (right) insert the provision to strip the senior pilots of their ability to return to work with their earned benefits and status.

So, what I'm trying to get at here, is that yes, ALPA's provision allowed our active, under age 65, FE's back to the front seat. But, more importantly, ALPA's provision kept all the under age 65 retired guys from also coming back.

Rock

It is probably worth pointing out that United is aware its 2-4-2 business seating sucks. So it is getting rid of it. And like most (almost every) other airline, it is phasing out its dedicated international first class. You won't find anything higher than business class on any 787, 777X or the A350. The 747 and older 777s and their great first class pod options are rapidly going the way of the dinosaur on most international carriers. But as a few people have pointed out, the new business class configurations that are replacing the old first class configurations are almost as nice, and depending on the carrier, even nicer. And within a few years, with very rare exceptions, that is all that will be available regardless of what our CBA does or doesn't require.

Adlerdriver

[QUOTE=Rock;2030029]While this may be true at UAL and DL, AA is sticking with a three class cabin on their 777-300s. They only have 20 (maybe not all delivered, yet) so with 8 seats per jet, we're only talking about 160 true FC seats in the U.S. airlines. But, since business on those jets lays flat too, we won't see them anyway.