"Lie Flat" Seats
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 260
Booked in Business over 16 hours.
I hope I'm wrong about this a Rock, but unfortunately I really don't think I am. Rather than relying on any screeching, I simply read the actual language in both sections. This statement contains universal language clearly designed to override any subsequent language in this section of the contract.
Regardless of a passenger carrier’s nomenclature or hierarchy for classes of service, a Flat Bed Seat satisfies the higher class of service requirements set forth in this Section.
Since ANY seat other than coach is a result of "higher class of service requirements".....and
Since a flat bed seat now satisfies those requirements....and
Since this statement removes ANY significance we might assign to the "nomenclature or hierarchy" of a particular seat (i.e. First class or Business class).....
Therefore, the language related to the list of priorities for seating on a 16 hour duty day deadhead transferred from the old contract to the new CBA has effectively been nullified unless a flat bed seat is only available in first class.
I know there are deadheads to HKG via DFW (+16 hours of duty) which will fall under this provision in the January 777 bid pack, maybe in December as well. Maybe an APCer will get one and should be able to settle this question pretty quickly.
Regardless of a passenger carrier’s nomenclature or hierarchy for classes of service, a Flat Bed Seat satisfies the higher class of service requirements set forth in this Section.
Since ANY seat other than coach is a result of "higher class of service requirements".....and
Since a flat bed seat now satisfies those requirements....and
Since this statement removes ANY significance we might assign to the "nomenclature or hierarchy" of a particular seat (i.e. First class or Business class).....
Therefore, the language related to the list of priorities for seating on a 16 hour duty day deadhead transferred from the old contract to the new CBA has effectively been nullified unless a flat bed seat is only available in first class.
I know there are deadheads to HKG via DFW (+16 hours of duty) which will fall under this provision in the January 777 bid pack, maybe in December as well. Maybe an APCer will get one and should be able to settle this question pretty quickly.
Called Corp travel. They booked me in first and agreed I should have the first. Bottom line is over 16, you rate first. They can book in business but bank must reflect first, and they will book you first if available on your flight. It was, so I got it. More importantly my bank was changed to reflect the first class ticket regardless.
Until you hit 16 hours, it can be a business class bank.
Good luck.
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
HK.
I think we all understand the provisions of ALPA National and age 60. I think we also understand the FDX Mec and company were working hard to make sure the chief pilot at the time could pretend to go to the back seat and then back to the left seat in the blink of an eye. After all he wrote good emails. That was kind of the point, just about every other airline seat progression stagnated, here at FDX we got to go backwards before we stagnated.
I hope the lesson learned is that any future age changes should be instituted gradually to prevent windfalls for some at the expense of others.
I think we all understand the provisions of ALPA National and age 60. I think we also understand the FDX Mec and company were working hard to make sure the chief pilot at the time could pretend to go to the back seat and then back to the left seat in the blink of an eye. After all he wrote good emails. That was kind of the point, just about every other airline seat progression stagnated, here at FDX we got to go backwards before we stagnated.
I hope the lesson learned is that any future age changes should be instituted gradually to prevent windfalls for some at the expense of others.
#153
Part Time Employee
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Posts: 1,918
#154
Come on guys, in a seniority based system the top guys really are expected to eventually retire
Please, please no more fly until you die incentives
...or we may just find they become a requirement😁
#156
It is probably worth pointing out that United is aware its 2-4-2 business seating sucks. So it is getting rid of it. And like most (almost every) other airline, it is phasing out its dedicated international first class. You won't find anything higher than business class on any 787, 777X or the A350. The 747 and older 777s and their great first class pod options are rapidly going the way of the dinosaur on most international carriers. But as a few people have pointed out, the new business class configurations that are replacing the old first class configurations are almost as nice, and depending on the carrier, even nicer. And within a few years, with very rare exceptions, that is all that will be available regardless of what our CBA does or doesn't require.
I know American carriers are all headed to a 2 class cabin if not already there. Regretfully we aren't the standard to strive for in international travel. We rank at the bottom for service and condition of aircraft.
Korean Air, Thai, Cathay, Singapore, Quantas, Emirates and China Southern are some that have first class cabins and lounges on newer aircraft with no plans to get rid of them at least in the near future.
#157
My first class ticket was issued on 20NOV for travel on 20DEC. Several variables here so I don't think my fare or class should be used for reference. This was a mid-trip scheduled D/H from HNL - SFO so short flight with block over 5 hours. 3-class aircraft out of HNL are rare, usually 2-class aircraft. This was UAL and they are bumping some fares to first but usually it's domestic coach tickets to first. The captain I flew with picked up the trip just a couple days before the trip started and he got first class also. Business would have qualified so probably got first due to UAL or maybe Global travel didn't know this was a 3-class aircraft and simply booked first. Ticket was around $650 so not a high fare.
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,173
My first class ticket was issued on 20NOV for travel on 20DEC. Several variables here so I don't think my fare or class should be used for reference. This was a mid-trip scheduled D/H from HNL - SFO so short flight with block over 5 hours. 3-class aircraft out of HNL are rare, usually 2-class aircraft. This was UAL and they are bumping some fares to first but usually it's domestic coach tickets to first. The captain I flew with picked up the trip just a couple days before the trip started and he got first class also. Business would have qualified so probably got first due to UAL or maybe Global travel didn't know this was a 3-class aircraft and simply booked first. Ticket was around $650 so not a high fare.
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