[QUOTE=Rock;2030029]While this may be true at UAL and DL, AA is sticking with a three class cabin on their 777-300s. They only have 20 (maybe not all delivered, yet) so with 8 seats per jet, we're only talking about 160 true FC seats in the U.S. airlines. But, since business on those jets lays flat too, we won't see them anyway.

 

Why? The rules for how class of service are booked don't change between the CBAs.

 

Yes, they do. Did you really miss this in your evaluation of the TA? Perhaps this is the first of many reasons for you to start doubting your "yes" vote.

Remember this statement in the new CBA?
Regardless of a passenger carrier’s nomenclature or hierarchy for
classes of service, a Flat Bed Seat satisfies the higher class of
service requirements set forth in this Section.

That means if you're deadheading to HKG on AA, you get business class since it lays flat (even if it's over 16 hour duty day). The only time you get first class is if business doesn't lay flat. That was the whole point of that BS concession we gave up.

So, I guess I should clarify my previous statement. The only way we'll see FC on AA is if we deviate and somehow have extra bank to cover the FC ticket.

 

Busboy, from what you are saying, it sounds like ALPA did both. Made sure that retired pilots couldn't return, but made sure that back seaters/pretend back seaters (ie, on leave back seaters that never went through training) were able to return.

However, I'm not sure why that is all fine and good with you. I feel confident that they could have ensured that both the retired pilots couldn't return, and back seaters couldn't return to the left seat of a widebody, causing the rest of us massive career stagnation. I am also most certain that that was what the crew force desired.

Why do you think they couldn't have done both? That's what WE wanted, wouldn't it be their obligation to follow their membership's desires?

 

Maybe my problem is I actually read the whole contract instead of relying on the latest screech fest on ACP. Section 8.A.5.c doesn't end at i. in my copy of the CBA. If you are scheduled on your AA 777 with three classes of service on a flight of 16 hours or more and you aren't sitting in first, you either A. should have a trip bank credited with the cost of a first class ticket, or B. have an easy grievence.
I will be interested to see how this part of the new CBA is actually applied. So far, I've seen no actual data points that prove FedEx pilots will no longer be sitting in first class when our CBA states that a first class ticket "shall" be the priority.

 

I hope I'm wrong about this a Rock, but unfortunately I really don't think I am. Rather than relying on any screeching, I simply read the actual language in both sections. This statement contains universal language clearly designed to override any subsequent language in this section of the contract.

Regardless of a passenger carrier’s nomenclature or hierarchy for classes of service, a Flat Bed Seat satisfies the higher class of service requirements set forth in this Section.

Since ANY seat other than coach is a result of "higher class of service requirements".....and

Since a flat bed seat now satisfies those requirements....and

Since this statement removes ANY significance we might assign to the "nomenclature or hierarchy" of a particular seat (i.e. First class or Business class).....

Therefore, the language related to the list of priorities for seating on a 16 hour duty day deadhead transferred from the old contract to the new CBA has effectively been nullified unless a flat bed seat is only available in first class.

I know there are deadheads to HKG via DFW (+16 hours of duty) which will fall under this provision in the January 777 bid pack, maybe in December as well. Maybe an APCer will get one and should be able to settle this question pretty quickly.

 

I don't know the specifics of his trip, but it appears machz990 was recently in first class on a three class airplane. It would be interesting to know when and how he got that seat.
Machz990?......

 

Alder I think you are confusing the requirement for a step up from coach to the hard requirement for a 1st class seat. But if I am wrong you can still make them pay for the 1st class seat. But a higher class of service is defined as block over 10, etc., block over 16 demands:

iv. iii. If the deadhead is scheduled for more than 16 hours duty, the following shall apply:
(a) The flight must be a non-stop flight; and
(b) A special booking priority shall apply to deadheads scheduled over 16 hours. That priority shall be:
(1) Discounted first class;
(2) Full fare first class;
(3) Business class; and.

 

I reserve the right to leave the jury out a bit longer than one bid period into the new contract regardless of Mach's experience.

Lag, the 1), 2), 3) you list above would be the "hierarchy for classes" to which the excerpt I posted refers. That hierarchy is held regardless in the presence of a flat bed seat in business, in my opinion.

 

Definitely. But the data point building has to start somewhere. And as it builds, it also needs to be compared to actual experiences with the 2011 CBA.