Trash Hauler 1

You nailed it Freightpuppy!

TH1

EDPM

Well, in their defence (no, I am NOT management) not every one of them was given a choice. There are plenty who were offered only a management position.

Now as far as the guys who were hired as IPA and then crossed over...well, I guess the "sold their soul" comment pretty much sums that up.

EDPM

UPSDISPATCHER

Fight it tooth and nail? When we unionized every management dispatcher actively dispatching was offered a seniority number....and 100% took it. We never petitioned the NMB for a "class and craft" definition and UPS didn't bother to fight us. Had we petitioned for a ruling we could have had a few more, but we really didn't want them. I'm guessing that is why they didn't fight. Anyway, when it comes down to it the company has no say as to who goes union.

So besides Dorsey, we kind of set a precedence as well.

IPAMD11FO

I didn't imply anything. I'm just referencing the terminology of the Court. Please see cashcow's post.

Yes. And Trash Hauler 1 pointed out some of your other "responsibilities".

I've seen some of what your schedules entail. Like when you work in the office/sim all day, and then get called out on MEF for a 12+ hour duty night. No thanks! You can't say it doesn't happen because it does. It's times like this that you need to be part of the IPA to protect all involved in the operation.

GEOFFREY

It is a matter of "when", not "if" with regard to management pilot integration onto the IPA seniority list. The company says it will "fight it tooth and nail", but the reality is that UPS would rather have management pilots on the seniortiy list.

IPAMD11FO

GEOFFREY,

Let's be honest here - UPS has mgmt pilots as an insurance policy. Yes, they do most of the training/checking as well as other administrative duties. Most of this work could and should be done by IPA seniority crewmembers or Business Professionals. The primary reason for having them is for use in the event of a work stoppage. Additionally they are used as "super reserves". If UPS wanted the mgmt pilots on the IPA seniority list, they would stop hiring pilots into mgmt positions. I believe they will fight this "tooth and nail" because they do not want to lose control of their insurance policy.

If and when it happens, I agree it will be ugly. But just for the sake of this argument, let's say 70% of the Subordinate Officials are opposed to seniority integration for whatever reason. In the short term, that means 30% will no longer have to endure some of the BS they are forced to do ("ordering" crews to fly broken planes, intimidating probationary pilots desiring mil leave, fly to FAR limits, etc). UPS just lost 30% of their insurance policy. The 70% who desired the status quo will eventually shrink to maybe 10 or 15% over time as they retire. This is what UPS fears most. Losing control of their insurance policy. I also believe our CP was ordered to make the video from someone high up at UPS Labor.

I don't know the future, but these will be some interesting times for sure.

fr8rcaptain

And thank goodness you all unionized. As a Captain, I always felt much more comfortable discussing fuel, MEL, wx issues with my dispatcher who had union protection. Although the UPS dispatchers did a great job before they organized...they do an even better job now.

...if only the teamsters would organize the schedulers, then my life would be better.

GEOFFREY

I do not believe that there are enough Mgt. Pilots who want to go into the IPA at the current time. I am one who would prefer the status quo. Not because I dislike harrassing line pilots, but because I like my training center slot (I worked for a time on the flight ops side. It was no fun). That is precisely why I have elected to stay in the training center.

However, if the company does not address our pay issues, I would be willing to bet that a lot of Mgt. pilots would sign cards for a vote. We will find out very soon. I am told that the IPA is in the final stages of sending out a communication to Rick Barr informing him that an effort will be made to unionize Mgt. pilots.

GEOFFREY

Also, UPS stopped hiring management pilots a couple of months ago. One more thing: we fully expect no pay adjustment because of your new contract, except for our normal "merit" increases (2.5%-4.0%)

cashcow

1. What makes you think you will have a choice of whether you join the IPA or not?
2. What makes you think that there will be cards to sign?
3. Who do you think has the authority to make this ruling?