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Omni vs Atlas

Old 06-01-2018, 07:08 AM
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Default Omni vs Atlas

Where to go? Any good arguments out there? THX!
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:08 AM
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Well, let's start with their contract.

Omni voted in a new one almost three months ago.

Atlas hasn't voted for a contract since the Bush Administration (first term)!
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Old 06-01-2018, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by zerozero View Post
Well, let's start with their contract.

Omni voted in a new one almost three months ago.

Atlas hasn't voted for a contract since the Bush Administration (first term)!

Ok, thanks for the reply. That certainly helps the short term anyway. Sounds like Atlas is due for one real soon. In the past 30+ years I have never seen such substantial pay increases for just about every carrier that passes a new CBA.

It appears that things are rather ugly at Atlas right now, but if they ever do get a new one I'm thinking Omni guys might wish they had delayed until the day after.

Is an 18 day rotation followed by 12-13 days off pretty much a given for OAI pilots?

Also, what's with paying taxes on travel??? Is that an ACMI thing or just an Atlas thing?

Thanks for any help, have been away from the 121 world since 2001.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mach5 View Post
Also, what's with paying taxes on travel??? Is that an ACMI thing or just an Atlas thing?

Thanks for any help, have been away from the 121 world since 2001.
Atlas considers getting you to and from your base a benefit and therefore it is taxable. If your trip starts with a deadhead from your base to the plane you will most likely be sent straight from home with no tax. Some bases have more day one deadheads than others. Same thing at the end of a trip.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:41 PM
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At Omni going to and from your gateway is on your work days and it is not taxed. Travel has improved significantly with the new CBA and there is ample opportunity to make extra money by waiving business class if you can stand it. Guys are consistently working 16 days under the new contract. Can go up to 22 in a worst case (lightning struck you twice) scenario but that includes all your traveling.

I'm a lifer at Omni. But if you only plan on being at an ACMI until a major calls then come to Omni or Kalitta. Atlas may get a much better contract down the road but who knows when.

If this is the lifestyle you want then look at the bases, benefits, etc. Omni may not be the best but you'll still be better off than 95% of the country.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mach5 View Post

Sounds like Atlas is due for one real soon.
I honestly wouldn't count on Atlas getting a new contract any time soon. The company has no-showed for negotiating sessions and is not keeping to the agreed upon negotiating schedule. There are three "blocks" of contractually negotiable items starting with the easiest (i.e. seniority, uniforms, union representation, etc.) and ending with block 3, the most contentious (i.e. pay, retirement, etc). After years of on and off negotiating sessions, there are only about 14 out of 35 tentatively agreed upon sections with about half of the remaining sections not even opened.

The company has made it clear that they do not intend to complete negotiations (they have stated that they will cease negotiations this coming August) and they plan to use the court system to force an amalgamated contract on us. Not only will this process take a really long time to complete, but it will result in a significantly sub-standard contract that pilots will not be able to vote on. The current Atlas contract is the result of a merged contract (between the old Atlas contract and the old Polar contract) that pilots weren't allowed to vote on. The current Southern contract is a seriously substandard, bankruptcy forced contract. Merging these two contracts will net pay scales far, far below anything close to the current industry standard and worst of all will NOT include any work rule improvements at all. Obviously, as you well know, most of the significant pay protections and improvements hinge upon the work rules as opposed to the hourly rates.

Anyway, don't come to Atlas expecting a contract any time soon. And if and when we do get one, don't expect anything good to come of it.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:10 AM
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Thanks for the input, guys.

For lets say a 16 day on rotation, is that followed by 14 hard days off? Then travel out, work, and travel back inside the 16 days?

Are there times where you make it home within the 16 day rotation? Reserve scenarios for instance?

Do you travel with a reserve crew?
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by aviatorhi View Post
At Omni going to and from your gateway is on your work days and it is not taxed. Travel has improved significantly with the new CBA and there is ample opportunity to make extra money by waiving business class if you can stand it. Guys are consistently working 16 days under the new contract. Can go up to 22 in a worst case (lightning struck you twice) scenario but that includes all your traveling.

I'm a lifer at Omni. But if you only plan on being at an ACMI until a major calls then come to Omni or Kalitta. Atlas may get a much better contract down the road but who knows when.

If this is the lifestyle you want then look at the bases, benefits, etc. Omni may not be the best but you'll still be better off than 95% of the country.
What he said. I also agree that Atlas has zero intent on negotiating a contract. The real details are in the work rules not the pay and ours are far behind industry standard.

Just my nickel
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER View Post
I honestly wouldn't count on Atlas getting a new contract any time soon. The company has no-showed for negotiating sessions and is not keeping to the agreed upon negotiating schedule. There are three "blocks" of contractually negotiable items starting with the easiest (i.e. seniority, uniforms, union representation, etc.) and ending with block 3, the most contentious (i.e. pay, retirement, etc). After years of on and off negotiating sessions, there are only about 14 out of 35 tentatively agreed upon sections with about half of the remaining sections not even opened.

The company has made it clear that they do not intend to complete negotiations (they have stated that they will cease negotiations this coming August) and they plan to use the court system to force an amalgamated contract on us. Not only will this process take a really long time to complete, but it will result in a significantly sub-standard contract that pilots will not be able to vote on. The current Atlas contract is the result of a merged contract (between the old Atlas contract and the old Polar contract) that pilots weren't allowed to vote on. The current Southern contract is a seriously substandard, bankruptcy forced contract. Merging these two contracts will net pay scales far, far below anything close to the current industry standard and worst of all will NOT include any work rule improvements at all. Obviously, as you well know, most of the significant pay protections and improvements hinge upon the work rules as opposed to the hourly rates.

Anyway, don't come to Atlas expecting a contract any time soon. And if and when we do get one, don't expect anything good to come of it.
What a disaster of an airline. Glad I avoided going there.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Mach5 View Post
Thanks for the input, guys.

For lets say a 16 day on rotation, is that followed by 14 hard days off? Then travel out, work, and travel back inside the 16 days?

Are there times where you make it home within the 16 day rotation? Reserve scenarios for instance?

Do you travel with a reserve crew?
First, Atlas pilots are contractually obligated to work 17 days a month. Not 16.

Also it is not at all unusual for junior pilots to be extended by up to three days.

If you get the 747, the junior base is ANC which usually requires a travel day on each end to get to and from Alaska.

If you get the 767, that'll be the CVG base, so depending on where you live that could add to your days away from home as well.

Some lines are built as one month schedules and some built as two month. Most of the one month schedules have one 17 day sequence. The two month schedules will have two or three sequences. Sometimes the 60 day schedules go junior so you would have extra travel days for the extra sequence.

On the 747, don't plan on that schedule holding at all. On the 767 if you're doing the DHL flying, it is probably more consistent with whatever you bid. In over 7 years here on the 747, I have NEVER had a monthly schedule end up being what I bid. Sometimes it changes a little. Sometimes I'm on a different continent all together.

With seniority and creative bidding you can sometimes get an extra day or two at home but don't count on it.

Reserve R1 is a 5 or 10 hour call out from home. R2 is a 90 minute call out from your base hotel (or home if you live in base). R3 is a 90 call out from the airport.

Seriously, I'd look at Omni or Kalitta, or Allegiant as a better place to work right now than Atlas. Go re-read the other threads. Aside from a couple of kool-aid drinkers and union haters, the vast majority of Atlas pilots will tell you the same thing. It's not a good place to work right now at all.

8
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