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Omni vs Atlas

Old 06-02-2018, 08:42 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER View Post
First, Atlas pilots are contractually obligated to work 17 days a month. Not 16.

Also it is not at all unusual for junior pilots to be extended by up to three days.

If you get the 747, the junior base is ANC which usually requires a travel day on each end to get to and from Alaska.

If you get the 767, that'll be the CVG base, so depending on where you live that could add to your days away from home as well.

Some lines are built as one month schedules and some built as two month. Most of the one month schedules have one 17 day sequence. The two month schedules will have two or three sequences. Sometimes the 60 day schedules go junior so you would have extra travel days for the extra sequence.

On the 747, don't plan on that schedule holding at all. On the 767 if you're doing the DHL flying, it is probably more consistent with whatever you bid. In over 7 years here on the 747, I have NEVER had a monthly schedule end up being what I bid. Sometimes it changes a little. Sometimes I'm on a different continent all together.

With seniority and creative bidding you can sometimes get an extra day or two at home but don't count on it.

Reserve R1 is a 5 or 10 hour call out from home. R2 is a 90 minute call out from your base hotel (or home if you live in base). R3 is a 90 call out from the airport.

Seriously, I'd look at Omni or Kalitta, or Allegiant as a better place to work right now than Atlas. Go re-read the other threads. Aside from a couple of kool-aid drinkers and union haters, the vast majority of Atlas pilots will tell you the same thing. It's not a good place to work right now at all.

8
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've been very disappointed working at Atlas, but I'm one of the fortunate ones, I'm leaving in August for greener pastures.
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Old 06-03-2018, 08:09 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by aviatorhi View Post
I know guys that are happy and unhappy at Atlas. I know guys that are happy and unhappy at Omni. I know guys that are happy and unhappy at Kalitta.

All that being said if someone is looking to do this job until a Major calls they should simply "chase the money". Getting money now is better than getting money eventually when you plan to move on anyway (ask JG Wentworth). For guys making this ACMI "thing" a career they should find one that works for them and stick to it. Not only is this a time of unprecedented income potential for ACMI pilots but it is also a time of unprecedented stability in this sector of the industry.
This is excellent well rounded advice.

Follow the money if you're just on a stepping stone.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:52 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER View Post
I honestly wouldn't count on Atlas getting a new contract any time soon. The company has no-showed for negotiating sessions and is not keeping to the agreed upon negotiating schedule. There are three "blocks" of contractually negotiable items starting with the easiest (i.e. seniority, uniforms, union representation, etc.) and ending with block 3, the most contentious (i.e. pay, retirement, etc). After years of on and off negotiating sessions, there are only about 14 out of 35 tentatively agreed upon sections with about half of the remaining sections not even opened.

The company has made it clear that they do not intend to complete negotiations (they have stated that they will cease negotiations this coming August) and they plan to use the court system to force an amalgamated contract on us. Not only will this process take a really long time to complete, but it will result in a significantly sub-standard contract that pilots will not be able to vote on. The current Atlas contract is the result of a merged contract (between the old Atlas contract and the old Polar contract) that pilots weren't allowed to vote on. The current Southern contract is a seriously substandard, bankruptcy forced contract. Merging these two contracts will net pay scales far, far below anything close to the current industry standard and worst of all will NOT include any work rule improvements at all. Obviously, as you well know, most of the significant pay protections and improvements hinge upon the work rules as opposed to the hourly rates.

Anyway, don't come to Atlas expecting a contract any time soon. And if and when we do get one, don't expect anything good to come of it.
Might sound simple... or ignorant, but why doesnít the pilot group just strike? Hit them where it counts, in their pockets. Cant make money if the metal isnít moving.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:57 PM
  #24  
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There's a little thing called the Railway Labor Act.
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Old 06-05-2018, 09:01 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
There's a little thing called the Railway Labor Act.
So definitely ignorant, got it. Have no idea what the Railway Labor Act entails, but Iím assuming that you canít just stop showing up to work for a better contract.
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:21 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer View Post
So definitely ignorant, got it. Have no idea what the Railway Labor Act entails, but Iím assuming that you canít just stop showing up to work for a better contract.
If you're reading these boards you are obviously interested in airline flying. Whether passenger, freight, regional, 121 or 135, we all operate under the rules of the Railway Labor Act. You need to educate yourself about this archaic document if you are going to work in this industry. It will dictate every contract you ever work under.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:47 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by sky jet View Post
If you're reading these boards you are obviously interested in airline flying. Whether passenger, freight, regional, 121 or 135, we all operate under the rules of the Railway Labor Act. You need to educate yourself about this archaic document if you are going to work in this industry. It will dictate every contract you ever work under.
Or better yet, become an investment banker and buy your own jet.

The RLA was not written for the workers. Every contract is a nightmarish struggle with virtually every airline.
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:30 PM
  #28  
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The formatting didn't quite work out but here you go

The Railway Labor Act Simplified
Purpose For Legislation
To avoid work stoppages that threaten to substantially interrupt interstate commerce to a degree such as to deprive any section of the country essential transportation services.
Railway Labor Act Enacted
Decades of railroad labor unrest which included widespread and often violent work stoppages frequently pitted federal soldiers against striking railroad workers. In 1924, President Calvin Coolidge urged both Railroads and Unions to recommend legislation for better labor/management relations and reduce the threat of railroad shutdowns. Railroads and their unions jointly drafted legislation, whose premise is that arms-length negotiations (jaw-jaw, not war-war) promote more stable labor relations. Formally signed by President Coolidge on May 20, 1926, this new law was designated the Railway Labor Act of 1926 (RLA).
The RLA was the first federal law guaranteeing the right of workers to organize and join unions and elect representatives without employer coercion or interference.
The RLA makes it the duty of all carriers and their employees to exert every reasonable effort to voluntarily settle disputes.
Who is covered by the RLA
The RLA applies to freight and commuter railroads, airlines, companies directly or indirectly controlled by carriers who perform services related to transportation of freight or passengers and the employees of these railroads, airlines and companies.
The RLA contains five basic purposes
To avoid any interruption to commerce.
To ensure an unhindered right of employees to join a labor union (added in 1934).
To provide complete independence of organization by both parties to carry out the purposes of the RLA.
To assist in the prompt and orderly settlement of disputes covering rates of
pay, work rules, or working conditions.
To assist in the prompt and orderly settlement of disputes growing out of
grievances or out of the interpretation or application of existing contracts covering the rates of pay, work rules or working conditions.
“Major”and “Minor”Disputes
Major Disputes–matters affecting rates of pay, rules and working conditions; and, making or modification of the collective bargaining agreement between the parties.
Almost total reliance upon collective bargaining for dispute settlement.
Self-help permitted after negotiation and mediation procedures are exhausted.
Minor Disputes–grievances growing out of the interpretation or application of collective bargaining agreements.
National Railroad Adjustment Board (NRAB) or alternative boards of adjustment have exclusive jurisdiction over grievance disputes.
Self-help not allowed.
Collective Bargaining Agreements (CBA's) under the RLA
Contracts remain in force until changed. Either party seeking to amend existing CBA’s must provide 30-day written notice as to desired changes. (Section 6 RLA). There is no time limit by which contracts must be negotiated to avoid a work stoppage. Under Section 6 of the act either side may propose changes to an existing collective bargaining agreement, but agreements (for purposes of stability and labor peace) generally contain agreed upon moratorium clauses that provide no change may be demanded on specified subjects for a prescribed period of time.

Once Section 6 notices proposing changes to an existing agreement have been served, the parties must maintain the status quo (no strikes or lockouts or promulgation of changes) until all procedures of the RLA have been fully exhausted.
For major disputes over wages, benefits and working conditions, the RLA provides for a three-member National Mediation Board, appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate, with the power to mediate any dispute between carriers and their employees at the request of either party or upon the board's own motion.
There is no time limit on the mediation procedure. The NMB controls the schedule of talks and only the NMB may release the parties from mediation.
If the NMB is unable to bring about an amicable settlement of the controversy through mediation, the board is required to use its influence to induce the parties voluntarily to submit to binding arbitration. The law is specific in that arbitration is voluntary and not compulsory.
If both sides voluntarily agree to binding arbitration, an Arbitration Board of up to six members is to be established. Carriers and labor each select an equal number of arbitrators, who then select the additional member or members.
Presidential Emergency Board
If either labor or management decline voluntary arbitration, and if in the opinion of the NMB the continuance of the controversy threatens substantially to interrupt interstate commerce in any section of the nation, the NMB is required to notify the President of the United States, who may, at his discretion, create a fact-finding Presidential Emergency Board.
The parties must maintain the status quo (no strikes or lockouts) for 30 days. If the president chooses not to appoint an emergency board, strikes or lockouts may occur after the 30-day cooling-off period.
Emergency boards are comprised of neutral members whose job is to make an investigation and submit to the president, within 30 days of its creation, a fact-finding report with non-binding recommendations for procedures or terms on which a dispute might be settled. During this period, the parties must maintain the status quo (a second 30-day cooling-off period).
Upon submission of the PEB report, the parties are required to maintain the status quo for an additional, or third 30-day cooling-off period (they may mutually agree to extend the period of status quo). The non-binding recommendations of the PEB are expected to carry the weight of public opinion and induce a voluntary agreement among the parties.
At this point, the RLA has run its course. If no agreement has been reached, either side becomes free to act in its own economic interests -- a work stoppage (or strike) by labor, a lockout by management, or unilateral implementation of management proposals (that generally would force a work stoppage).
However, Congress frequently imposes its own settlement. Such congressional action is not part of the RLA. The constitutional authority for Congress to impose its own settlements is found in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution's commerce clause.
NMB conducts elections
NMB defines the craft/class of employees eligible to vote extending to all employees performing a particular job function throughout the company’s operations, not at particular site or region.
Union must produce authorization cards or other proof of supportfrom at least 35% of the craft or class if notrepresented; and 50% + 1 if employees are represented.
RLA requires that the Union receive a majority of votes from theentire craft or class, rather than a majority of those who choose to vote.
RLA contains no unfair labor practice procedures; however, the NMB is required to insure the choice of representatives without interference or coercion by the carrier and can decide to run another election if it finds that carriers conduct violated the obligations under Section 2.
Examining the RLA
Amended significantly only twice:
To create the NRAB to arbitrate minor disputes
To include Airlines under the act

Notice the "Self-help permitted after negotiation and mediation procedures are exhausted." Self help means strike.

And this little bit - "There is no time limit on the mediation procedure. The NMB controls the schedule of talks and only the NMB may release the parties from mediation."
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Old 06-06-2018, 06:40 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
And this little bit - "There is no time limit on the mediation procedure. The NMB controls the schedule of talks and only the NMB may release the parties from mediation."
This is the only tidbit that matters, because in our great new society you will never see employees be released to strike. Ever.
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:45 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by aviatorhi View Post
This is the only tidbit that matters, because in our great new society you will never see employees be released to strike. Ever.
Agreed. Doesn't matter what party the President is, strikes at the majors ain't happening. Regionals, perhaps. If they're small enough.
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