Omni Air Pilot Negotiations update
07-17-2017, 07:46 AM
#111
Sitting and scratching...
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Position: Upright
Posts: 371
DubiousBrothers articulation of the situation is exactly how I feel. The last 2 posts of his eloquently represent both parties (NC and pilot group) involved in the pilot negotiations aspect, and many are hinging possible career moves as a result of this.
07-17-2017, 08:02 AM
#112
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: 777 all
Posts: 64
ExtraMedium - I think I understand your position – I should shut up and get back on the Hamster wheel. Got it.
Now for the serious thinkers out there.
My question remains the same: Please explain with logic and reason why we should not receive details of the offer?
Or why even asking such a question is off limits
Now for the serious thinkers out there.
My question remains the same: Please explain with logic and reason why we should not receive details of the offer?
Or why even asking such a question is off limits
07-17-2017, 08:24 AM
#113
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by Dubiousbrother
ExtraMedium - I think I understand your position – I should shut up and get back on the Hamster wheel. Got it.
Now for the serious thinkers out there.
My question remains the same: Please explain with logic and reason why we should not receive details of the offer?
Or why even asking such a question is off limits
Now for the serious thinkers out there.
My question remains the same: Please explain with logic and reason why we should not receive details of the offer?
Or why even asking such a question is off limits
Since you're friends with most of the negotiating committee, why don't you call one of them, ask them your questions, and report back to us your findings instead of trolling the people on this forum who are trying to answer questions respectfully?
07-17-2017, 09:14 AM
#114
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: 777 all
Posts: 64
Extra - I have asked this question to a negotiator. The answer (Or non answer) was Puzzling.
Essentially the response was “This is the way negotiations are” and “these are the policies”.
If this truly is the IBT policy, then I contend the union is in direct opposition of its own purpose on this issue.
I’m still supportive and fully aware of the Company’s shortcomings but I don’t’ think this is too much to ask from our representatives. Perhaps you disagree.
Essentially the response was “This is the way negotiations are” and “these are the policies”.
If this truly is the IBT policy, then I contend the union is in direct opposition of its own purpose on this issue.
I’m still supportive and fully aware of the Company’s shortcomings but I don’t’ think this is too much to ask from our representatives. Perhaps you disagree.
07-17-2017, 12:06 PM
#115
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by Dubiousbrother
Extra - I have asked this question to a negotiator. The answer (Or non answer) was Puzzling.
Essentially the response was “This is the way negotiations are” and “these are the policies”.
If this truly is the IBT policy, then I contend the union is in direct opposition of its own purpose on this issue.
I’m still supportive and fully aware of the Company’s shortcomings but I don’t’ think this is too much to ask from our representatives. Perhaps you disagree.
Essentially the response was “This is the way negotiations are” and “these are the policies”.
If this truly is the IBT policy, then I contend the union is in direct opposition of its own purpose on this issue.
I’m still supportive and fully aware of the Company’s shortcomings but I don’t’ think this is too much to ask from our representatives. Perhaps you disagree.
All I can say is "You are the Man". Please excuse the ignorance of some that just can't see the point.
I can't agree more with you, that there is no reason on God's green earth that a
Committiee of three or four at THIS POINT OF NEGOTIATIONS should think that the membership is not entitled and doesn't need to see what's on the table.
It is all of our careers and lively hood that is in flux at this moment.
The only reason I can see that the membership is not being allowed to view and review the offer is that the IBT thinks we will want to vote yes for it and it is not in their best interest that we do.
There is a high probability that the IBT is using Omni as a pawn in some game they are playing.
I will remain 110% with Dubious and Stickwiggler.
07-17-2017, 02:17 PM
#116
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
It amazes me how pilots have no clue about how Negotiations work.
For the last time:
THERE IS NOTHING FOR YOU TO SEE UNTIL THERE IS A TENTATIVE AGREEMENT.
Period.
Until then, insisting on seeing Company "offers" plays directly into the hands of the Company. You are essentially telling management you have no confidence in the ability of the people YOU appointed to do the job.
Your NC will evaluate all offers, accept or reject them OR use them to horse trade for another section of the contract they think is important.
If you don't like how the NC works, perhaps you should vote out the Union and negotiate pay and work rules with the Company personally. Ask you F/As how they liked their last Tentative Agreement and what happened to it.
For the last time:
THERE IS NOTHING FOR YOU TO SEE UNTIL THERE IS A TENTATIVE AGREEMENT.
Period.
Until then, insisting on seeing Company "offers" plays directly into the hands of the Company. You are essentially telling management you have no confidence in the ability of the people YOU appointed to do the job.
Your NC will evaluate all offers, accept or reject them OR use them to horse trade for another section of the contract they think is important.
If you don't like how the NC works, perhaps you should vote out the Union and negotiate pay and work rules with the Company personally. Ask you F/As how they liked their last Tentative Agreement and what happened to it.
07-17-2017, 02:57 PM
#117
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: 777 all
Posts: 64
I'll clarify further Packrat - certainly the latest company proposal must have been struck with ink on paper or a digital email with words and numbers.
That is what I desire to view with my own eyeballs to determine how far apart things are so that we may make an informed decision about our future.
Simply stating "That's the way it works" is not a sufficient answer to my rather straightforward question.
I'm Still waiting for a rational and intelligent Answer.
Clearly its above Rats ability to provide a coherent response. Another shut up and proceed to the Hamster wheel guy.
I’m quite serious and open minded about this.
I’m willing to listen to any compelling argument that can justify the legitimacy of this agenda.
That is what I desire to view with my own eyeballs to determine how far apart things are so that we may make an informed decision about our future.
Simply stating "That's the way it works" is not a sufficient answer to my rather straightforward question.
I'm Still waiting for a rational and intelligent Answer.
Clearly its above Rats ability to provide a coherent response. Another shut up and proceed to the Hamster wheel guy.
I’m quite serious and open minded about this.
I’m willing to listen to any compelling argument that can justify the legitimacy of this agenda.
07-17-2017, 02:57 PM
#118
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: B777 Left
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Dubiousbrother
ExtraMedium - I think I understand your position – I should shut up and get back on the Hamster wheel. Got it.
Now for the serious thinkers out there.
My question remains the same: Please explain with logic and reason why we should not receive details of the offer?
Or why even asking such a question is off limits
Now for the serious thinkers out there.
My question remains the same: Please explain with logic and reason why we should not receive details of the offer?
Or why even asking such a question is off limits
07-17-2017, 03:51 PM
#119
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: 777 all
Posts: 64
WhereRwe - May I ask you a simple question since this is my first rodeo?
IF so many members wish to see more specifics then how is it WE are undermining the process? is it not the Masterminds that suppress information that share some of the blame?
These committee members are supposed to represent us, are they not?
Regardless, please explain how my asking for more transparency is undermining the Committee?
I'm still waiting an answer to my original question as well.
IF so many members wish to see more specifics then how is it WE are undermining the process? is it not the Masterminds that suppress information that share some of the blame?
These committee members are supposed to represent us, are they not?
Regardless, please explain how my asking for more transparency is undermining the Committee?
I'm still waiting an answer to my original question as well.
07-17-2017, 05:49 PM
#120
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by Packrat
It amazes me how pilots have no clue about how Negotiations work.
For the last time:
THERE IS NOTHING FOR YOU TO SEE UNTIL THERE IS A TENTATIVE AGREEMENT.
Period.
Until then, insisting on seeing Company "offers" plays directly into the hands of the Company. You are essentially telling management you have no confidence in the ability of the people YOU appointed to do the job.
Your NC will evaluate all offers, accept or reject them OR use them to horse trade for another section of the contract they think is important.
If you don't like how the NC works, perhaps you should vote out the Union and negotiate pay and work rules with the Company personally. Ask you F/As how they liked their last Tentative Agreement and what happened to it.
For the last time:
THERE IS NOTHING FOR YOU TO SEE UNTIL THERE IS A TENTATIVE AGREEMENT.
Period.
Until then, insisting on seeing Company "offers" plays directly into the hands of the Company. You are essentially telling management you have no confidence in the ability of the people YOU appointed to do the job.
Your NC will evaluate all offers, accept or reject them OR use them to horse trade for another section of the contract they think is important.
If you don't like how the NC works, perhaps you should vote out the Union and negotiate pay and work rules with the Company personally. Ask you F/As how they liked their last Tentative Agreement and what happened to it.
The only thing you said in your ridiculous blabber (Which by the way is most of your comments ) is voting the union out. At this point I am tired of the money that all of us are losing everyday this keeps on.
A decertification of the IBT is a highly possible move at this time.
And one more thing RAT - Try spending more time preparing for your next training event and stop interrupting adult conversations.
Read your FCOM and FCTM instead of APC.
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