Dutch80

Hoover, let me see if I understand you correctly

Are you implying that I am spewing management propaganda ?
And if so on what basis ?
And who said anything about individuals or groups ?
And who suggested that 400 people negotiate with the company ?

But really, I couldn't care less about the answers to any of those questions.

The answer I really care about, and I don't seem to get from anyone, and believe me I have asked, is why can’t I see what's on the table ??

I don't want to negotiate, I am not looking to undermine anybody, I'm just curious. Why is this such a secret that only a selected few are privileged to see ?

Those answers I would much appreciate, but alas, no such luck.

Well other than… you don't need to know, or something about a group and 400 individuals or something….Thanks I got it.

stickwiggler

Gentlemen,

This is getting even more heated than before.
Let's all take a breath.

The NC is not doing anything nefarious. They are, I'm sure, acting in what they consider the best long term interest of the pilot group.

The reason i was calling for more communication is not because it's a first rodeo, a managerial stooge, ignorance etc.
In fact, it was exactly the opposite.
When you get towards the end of negotiations, things always get.... emotional. That's because they always save the $ for last.

These vitriolic debates were predictable, IMHO because of a feeling of being left in the dark.

What is different, for me, is how many guys have opportunities and they need to make a decision ASAP.

Please, don't misunderstand, I'm not even suggesting trying to force a vote; just a little bit better comms to aid each individual make the decision that is best for him/her and their families.

Remember, we are all going to have to fly together when this is over.
Wild accusations and some serious name calling will make for some tough fence mending.

HercDriver130

IBT is not going to release the details of whats on the table. They simply wont. They don't want the merits of whats on the table debated in public before your NC makes a decision to bring it to you.

Hillywood69

There's a reason you don't know what's being offered: the negotiating team isn't allowed to share what the company is offering. Per the mediator. Period. Sit back, relax, enjoy the ride cause if it's not solved in the next month there's no Omni anyway. Can't fly airplanes without pilots and all the FOs are gone or going

Dubiousbrother

Thank you Silver and Rosebud.


Hillywood - To your knowledge is the Negotiating team not allowed to share info under law or IBT policy?

I've heard from several ALPA members who have indicated their experience has been different than this process we are experiencing.

More information is typically disseminated to the membership.

Thanks.

Hillywood69

I have dealt with mediation at another company in the past, and the offers are not to be discussed outside of the committee. not IBT, federal.

Either way it's irrelevant if every FO leaves for better money, BUSINESS travel, not some bs pay for pain that's irrelevant because the won't travel you that long with gateway anyway, better healthcare and retirement.

Now management is jumping of the ship or trying to anyway, and not for a legacy carrier. What does that tell you?

2 weeks maybe 4. Good luck

GreenFlash

While the NC cannot divulge the exact details of the company's latest "offer", It's not hard to disseminate the highlights of what it entailed. Just read your email or speak with your fellow pilots.

The Company is trying to buy out the pilot group for a contract by offering a pay increase and nothing else. A pay increase that still leaves us at the very bottom of our sector of the industry. A pay increase that still leaves us with the same flimsy contract language we've had to suffer though over the last 6 years. A pay increase that has us paying the same high health insurance premiums for minimal coverage. A pay increase that has us flying all over the Planet in a coach class middle seat which are getting more and more cramped by the day. I can go on, and on...

Don't sell yourself short by taking the bait. The company is hoping you're enticed solely by the $$$ that you overlook the rest of contract. That's all they want you to see, and demanding it plays right into their game. It's exactly what we went through in 2011 and why we've been stuck with our abysmal contract since. We are worth more than just an hourly rate and many sections of our contract need vast improvements. Our NC is working hard for these improvements, but until the company comes back to the table to NEGOTIATE and not just drop a pay rate on the table and walk away, we sit in purgatory and they continue to loose staffing.

Dubiousbrother

Hillywood –Are the words I’m writing not coming through the website correctly? Did I not ask if there was a LEGAL restriction on releasing information? Your answer would be perfectly acceptable if I had asked – Hey Hilly, have you ever dealt with this and the offers are not to be discussed outside of the committee? If you don’t know the answer, then just say “I don’t know”.

Greenflash - If indeed the recent offer is well below in the areas you mentioned, and you may very well be correct (not that you’ll ever want to know), then in fact would that not serve to buttress our negotiating position?

I’ll answer my own question; of course it would.

So once again we’re asked to suspend our ability to reason and think for ourselves.

Honestly, some of you guys don’t make any sense. Greenflash, Hillywood, and others - let me get this straight. If we ask for details then we’re being disloyal, undermining the process etc. we need to trust the Negotiating committee right? I’ve read that repeatedly.

Well then I have to assume that if and when the Negotiating committee agrees to a tentative agreement and submits that offer for a vote, you are going to refuse to view the offer before voting RIGHT. Because you guys have made it quite clear we need to TRUST the NC. If that’s the case, then asking to view the TA would be disloyal and not trusting the Negotiating committee RIGHT.

You see fellas were being played by some of these people. Whenever direct questions are repeatedly skirted and ignored. Whenever a position lacks consistency, you know something is up.

Some of you may disagree with my desiring more information, but at least I’m philosophically consistent in my positions. Or I make a genuine attempt to be.

Maybe Dutch is on to something; perhaps we are being used as an appendage for someone else’s agenda.

Hillywood69

Replace federal with legal if it helps you understand. Probably doesn't though. Never said you can't ask but they can't tell you the current offer. Not sure about what has been offered in the past but keep being ****ed, or be a man and call someone on the committee and ask the question to them and not on a forum. But you won't cause you'd rather ***** and hide behind your screen name

Dutch80

Oh my ... 2 weeks maybe 4 ??
I better get my vacation and sick time before is too late.
Just like I did back in 2012, when the Mayans told me about the end of the world.
Thanks for the heads up Hilly