Omni Air Pilot Negotiations update
07-29-2017, 11:14 AM
#171
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Rosebud10
It figures your response would be at a juvenile level.
Let the grown ups figure this out.
And by the way, it would be the fight that you would not want to be in.
Let the grown ups figure this out.
And by the way, it would be the fight that you would not want to be in.
07-29-2017, 11:23 AM
#172
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Dubiousbrother
Well I am pleased that some information has come to light, although I would have preferred it come from the organization that I pay for representation.
So we can infer from your ramblings this morning you are not for more information and
What’s been missing throughout this process is the appreciation for the rights of the individual pilot to choose his or her own course.
So we can infer from your ramblings this morning you are not for more information and
What’s been missing throughout this process is the appreciation for the rights of the individual pilot to choose his or her own course.
Look at the last one of the unfair labor practices below. Then tell me what you think.
This is a card game its the way it's always been done you don't show your cards on either side of the table to the people sitting around the table.
Why to you have so little faith that your negotiating committee are wanting the best for you. For US.
Unfair Labor Practices
Part of the National Labor Relations Act’s responsibilities includes ensuring employers do not engage in unfair labor practices. Under the Act, employers are obligated to follow certain laws, and are prohibited from certain actions, including:
Interfering with, coercing, or restraining employees’ right to form, join, or assist in the formation of labor organizations
Dominating or interfering with the formation of any labor union organization
Discrimination in hiring or tenure of employees in order to discourage participation in union organization
Discriminating against any employee who files charges or testifies against the employer
Refusing to bargain with the employee’s representative
07-29-2017, 11:57 AM
#173
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: 777 all
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Captain Spock
Call them ramblings if you like.
Look at the last one of the unfair labor practices below. Then tell me what you think.
This is a card game its the way it's always been done you don't show your cards on either side of the table to the people sitting around the table.
Why to you have so little faith that your negotiating committee are wanting the best for you. For US.
Unfair Labor Practices
Part of the National Labor Relations Act’s responsibilities includes ensuring employers do not engage in unfair labor practices. Under the Act, employers are obligated to follow certain laws, and are prohibited from certain actions, including:
Interfering with, coercing, or restraining employees’ right to form, join, or assist in the formation of labor organizations
Dominating or interfering with the formation of any labor union organization
Discrimination in hiring or tenure of employees in order to discourage participation in union organization
Discriminating against any employee who files charges or testifies against the employer
Refusing to bargain with the employee’s representative
Look at the last one of the unfair labor practices below. Then tell me what you think.
This is a card game its the way it's always been done you don't show your cards on either side of the table to the people sitting around the table.
Why to you have so little faith that your negotiating committee are wanting the best for you. For US.
Unfair Labor Practices
Part of the National Labor Relations Act’s responsibilities includes ensuring employers do not engage in unfair labor practices. Under the Act, employers are obligated to follow certain laws, and are prohibited from certain actions, including:
Interfering with, coercing, or restraining employees’ right to form, join, or assist in the formation of labor organizations
Dominating or interfering with the formation of any labor union organization
Discrimination in hiring or tenure of employees in order to discourage participation in union organization
Discriminating against any employee who files charges or testifies against the employer
Refusing to bargain with the employee’s representative
An accurate way to describe what's been going on would be me having to ante up every round. Make decisions on whether to raise, fold, or call without the ability to ever see any cards.
Regarding bargaining: Has the Company refused to bargain with the representative? If they have then they are of course in violation of fair labor practices. I have been under the impression this has not been the case.
It appears that you are agitated by the Company’s decision to release some details of their offer.
May I ask why?
Could you please respond as your Avatar’s Namesake would (Spock) with logic, reasoning and without emotion.
Please don’t resort to the usual cliché’s and platitudes that don’t provide substantive answers such as:
“We’re playing in to their hands”
“Whipsawing”
“Undermining the NC”
“this is how negotiations work”
07-29-2017, 12:03 PM
#174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Thrill Seat
Posts: 467
After reading the company propaganda I understand why this was not presented to us. A lot of grey areas and using purely hourly financial compensation to hide the rest of the bad areas. Everyone perceives differently but with no mention of home basing, lack of solid TDY language, no O.T. Hourly Compensation above straight pay, questionable emergency travel wording, lack of successorship wording, and compensation that in 4 years is still subpar to competitors newly inked contracts... I rather let my negotiators continue their due diligence.
07-29-2017, 01:32 PM
#175
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 36
Dubious,
Captain Spook or Spock or whatever he calls himself is obviously one of us that can't or is afraid to think for himself so he hides behind the thoughts of labor laws that he more than likely just looked up and wants the NC to do all his thinking for him.
Ok enough about him on to more important things.
You sounding very confident and comfortable in your thought as I am.
I would offer you this Dubious:
1.The NC has done all they can my hats off to them.
2. The NC has to take it up the chain with a recommend to vote.
3. The IBT/Executive( 15 member board ) allow it to a vote.
If 1-3 do not happen than us a Pilot Group must take action to protect ourselves and our lively hood.
Captain Spook or Spock or whatever he calls himself is obviously one of us that can't or is afraid to think for himself so he hides behind the thoughts of labor laws that he more than likely just looked up and wants the NC to do all his thinking for him.
Ok enough about him on to more important things.
You sounding very confident and comfortable in your thought as I am.
I would offer you this Dubious:
1.The NC has done all they can my hats off to them.
2. The NC has to take it up the chain with a recommend to vote.
3. The IBT/Executive( 15 member board ) allow it to a vote.
If 1-3 do not happen than us a Pilot Group must take action to protect ourselves and our lively hood.
07-29-2017, 02:46 PM
#176
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Dubiousbrother
Captain Spock – The card game analogy doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
An accurate way to describe what's been going on would be me having to ante up every round. Make decisions on whether to raise, fold, or call without the ability to ever see any cards.
Regarding bargaining: Has the Company refused to bargain with the representative? If they have then they are of course in violation of fair labor practices. I have been under the impression this has not been the case.
It appears that you are agitated by the Company’s decision to release some details of their offer.
May I ask why?
Could you please respond as your Avatar’s Namesake would (Spock) with logic, reasoning and without emotion.
Please don’t resort to the usual cliché’s and platitudes that don’t provide substantive answers such as:
“We’re playing in to their hands”
“Whipsawing”
“Undermining the NC”
“this is how negotiations work”
An accurate way to describe what's been going on would be me having to ante up every round. Make decisions on whether to raise, fold, or call without the ability to ever see any cards.
Regarding bargaining: Has the Company refused to bargain with the representative? If they have then they are of course in violation of fair labor practices. I have been under the impression this has not been the case.
It appears that you are agitated by the Company’s decision to release some details of their offer.
May I ask why?
Could you please respond as your Avatar’s Namesake would (Spock) with logic, reasoning and without emotion.
Please don’t resort to the usual cliché’s and platitudes that don’t provide substantive answers such as:
“We’re playing in to their hands”
“Whipsawing”
“Undermining the NC”
“this is how negotiations work”
Really so the company showing their cards to all the people around the table and saying look how great our hand is root for us, doesn't fit with your mentality?
When the company was in so called "negotiations" they never sent anyone to the table that could actually negotiate. Their "cliche" was we'll take this to the owner after every round.
No that they need a contract they go behind th NC and try to throw them under the bus. This supposed TA was presented and countered but they refused to reply.
It's a take it or leave it mentality and it looks like you've fallen for it Dubious.
07-29-2017, 02:49 PM
#177
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Dutch80
There is an easy straightforward way to determine the value of the company proposal on its merits.
Let the pilots vote. It will either pass or not
Simple.
Let the pilots vote. It will either pass or not
Simple.
07-29-2017, 03:09 PM
#178
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: N/A
Posts: 19
The proposed pay is a joke, this is the best time ever in the industry, Omni makes a ton of cash, do not let them fool you. Business class or better, and pay rates that are industry standard with at the least a 75 hour guarantee. Flying charter all over the World demands to be compensated!!!
Do not cave, have some balls and dignity!
15 days on 16 days off
Do not cave, have some balls and dignity!
15 days on 16 days off
Last edited by Cottonmouth; 07-29-2017 at 03:27 PM.
07-29-2017, 03:12 PM
#179
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 28
Ok, you guys need to settle down. No need to go to fisticuffs over this.
First off, it's not up to us to decide on whether we get a vote. It's up to our Negotiators and the IBT. That's it.
Second, it's not worth a vote anyways! That's why it hasn't come to that! Yes, the hourly rate is very enticing, hence why the company provided that. But what about everything else? What about all the details? They didn't provide any. Why, you might ask? Because the devil is in the details and that's exactly where we get screwed! Our negotiators are well aware this, and it's why we don't have a TA.
First off, it's not up to us to decide on whether we get a vote. It's up to our Negotiators and the IBT. That's it.
Second, it's not worth a vote anyways! That's why it hasn't come to that! Yes, the hourly rate is very enticing, hence why the company provided that. But what about everything else? What about all the details? They didn't provide any. Why, you might ask? Because the devil is in the details and that's exactly where we get screwed! Our negotiators are well aware this, and it's why we don't have a TA.
07-30-2017, 05:52 AM
#180
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: 777 all
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by Captain Spock
Really so the company showing their cards to all the people around the table and saying look how great our hand is root for us, doesn't fit with your mentality?
When the company was in so called "negotiations" they never sent anyone to the table that could actually negotiate. Their "cliche" was we'll take this to the owner after every round.
No that they need a contract they go behind th NC and try to throw them under the bus. This supposed TA was presented and countered but they refused to reply.
It's a take it or leave it mentality and it looks like you've fallen for it Dubious.
When the company was in so called "negotiations" they never sent anyone to the table that could actually negotiate. Their "cliche" was we'll take this to the owner after every round.
No that they need a contract they go behind th NC and try to throw them under the bus. This supposed TA was presented and countered but they refused to reply.
It's a take it or leave it mentality and it looks like you've fallen for it Dubious.
The company never sending the owner to negotiate is valid. I presume you’re equally dissatisfied that the IBT didn’t send the 15 member executive board as well. They have the final say on a TA, not the NC as I understand. In any event, that’s water over the dam and I’m focused on the here and now.
I haven’t fallen for anything. My search has been for truth, facts, and a more active exchange of information.
Just because you have a disagreement with someone doesn’t imply they have fallen for something. They may simply have a differing opinion.
It’s troubling to me that some here believe the merits of the arguments are not material. In fact such considerations appear irrelevant.
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