gearup1006

They are held to a great standard, however some are not passing upgrade the 80 hour OE is long gone either you have it in about 30 or you don’t.

Hedley

80 hours of OE? Please tell me that you’re joking. New hires may need one more trip, but 80 hours for either seat indicates someone who shouldn’t be in this business, especially for a captain.

PossibleDeviation

100% agree

Flydafe

Depends on the point of reference. For someone like me they hasn’t flown for about 9 months it would take time to get back in to the swing of things. Also there is not a set time to get your experience from what I recall. Everyone progresses at different intervals. It’s all subjective and depends on your check airman honestly. Had one that gave me the nod on upgrade after a few drinks and a chat the night before. I had got that tip from a few pilots who got signed off by the same guy and used it to my advantage. Was I prepared yes. Did I make procedural mistakes no. Did I know everything in the books no. In todays environment I can imagine the false sense of competitiveness makes these bias type assessments seem obscure but everyone in the business knows that guy or girl who got the nod that should not have.

Hedley

Needing massive amounts of OE points to hiring poor candidates (experience or motivation levels) or poor training. I am average at best. I have had several breaks in my career where I didn’t put on a uniform for over a year, but I put in the effort, showed up prepared, had excellent training, and completed on schedule. Needing 3 times the normal hours for OE means that the training department didn’t prepare the person for line flying, or that the person is either weak or undisciplined. If someone needs 80 hours OE before a sign off, they aren’t ready to be a captain.

StickPig

I agree, but will add this. Needing 80 hours of OE as a CA could indicate both issues with training and preparedness, or signal a sign off that should never have occurred in the first place. By most standards I am an average professional pilot. I know a little about a lot of the book stuff. I can fly the airplane well, but sure as hell cannot quite the book by memory in many cases. But I felt confident coming out of upgrade training to OE and that speaks more to the training staff and OE LCP’s than it does myself. I still ask questions all the time, and have told everyone one of my FO’s I’ve flown with that I always expect to learn something in every trip. 80 hours is a bit absurd, but I would tend to agree that those type guys/gals never should have upgraded in the first place. I know many people here who had the requisite time to upgrade in training and chose to sit right seat for a while. Sure, it sucks. But I cannot fathom coming immediately into the left seat on a new operation with all new SOP’s and having success out of the gate. The ones I’ve seen that do typically have experience in the -145 already. Learning a new aircraft AND new procedures seems like a mammoth undertaking.

TYYLR

Apologies if this has already been covered but is the upgrade mandatory once you have the requisite hours? I would technically have the required hours with 1000 PIC 135 scheduled commuter, but upgrading as a new hire would be crazy. I guess the question is, could I sit right seat for a while until I learn the aircraft and operation, and then bid captain? How long will they let you sit as FO before they expect you to upgrade?

StickPig

A few friends of mine did this very thing. I wouldn’t go as far to call it pressuring, but they’ll definitely encourage you to as soon as you feel ready. As I said it my last post, it can absolutely be done, but seems really stressful to me. However, I’m just a dumb Army guy so that might be why. I came to C5 75 hours short of upgrade eligibility and can’t begin to explain how much sitting right seat for 100 hours did for me. There are definitely times I give more thought to what I’m doing, more so that folks that have a lot of time either at the company, in the airplane or both. But that right seat time and the CA’s I flew with were paramount to my learning here. And despite what a few people have mentioned here in a thread or two, the training department really does do a great job. Indoc left some things to be desired, but that wasn’t the fault of the instructor. I have yet to run into anyone (well one) in the training department I didn’t feel was invested in my success. Work with them, come prepared, have a good attitude, and don’t be that guy/gal who every other sentence says “Well at (your last job) we didn’t do this...”

dmspilot

I don't think the training is poor but rather the company gives weaker candidates more chances than they probably should.

gearup1006

I didn’t touch an airplane for over 10 months due to Covid and when I returned to training at C5 and I made it through the “direct entry” program with 25 hours of OE, however from what I’m hearing people just come and expect to be walked through being a captain. And either you have it and you know your duties and are comfortable making decisions or your not. So the wash out rate for a DEC was by word over 90% failure