Originally Posted by dovic91

The pay and work rules at C5 are well known, or at least they should be by now. There are other little gems that don't get discovered until one gets in the door though. Training is not AQP, but they say they are working on it. To say that the training is poor would be generous. To be fair, there are some great instructors, but they are hampered by a poor syllabus written mostly by people who never flew jets before. "It's how we did it on the Dash" is a common answer when asking why things are done a certain way. They advance pilots to be LCPs with only 100 hours of PIC time in the aircraft they fly. The base chief pilots all have little time in the 145. One isn't a captain yet, and one doesn't even have a type rating in the only airplane the company flies. Pilots from other now closed airlines have moved to C5 in the past year and have tried to bring their knowledge base along. It's like pulling teeth to get the legacy C5ers to learn. All of the whining and complaining when procedures were introduced that prohibited the use of pitch mode on initial climb was very indicitive of the low skill level of many. Equally as telling was the uproar over a recent change requiring the pilot flying to guard the flight controls when below 10,000 ft with the autopilot on. Don't ask anyone who hasn't been trained somewhere else how to fly an RNAV arrival. They quite simply don't teach anyone how to use the FMS at C5 and consequently nobody "trusts" the VPI because they don't know how to set up the FMS. Fortunately, I was able to move along a short time ago, with my certificate intact. So yeah, there are more reasons besides rock bottom pay and a joke of a contract.

Originally Posted by dmspilot

Lots of horribly incorrect info in that post, Divert is the 45 minute FAA required fuel reserve, plus fuel to the alternate if one is required; Final Divert is a 30 minute reserve; and these have absolutely nothing to do with causing weight restrictions.

Originally Posted by Pancakelandings

What dirt does C5 have on you that makes you their biggest cheer leader??

Originally Posted by dovic91

Pretty sure that extra "final divert" fuel contributes significantly to the overweight issues. The divert fuel is an FAA requirement. The extra reserve fuel is something C5 adds, because they don't trust their pilots and or dispatchers enough to made good decisions regarding fuel. That extra 600 lbs, along with the new weight changes, makes the 145 a 48 seat airplane, with no available jumpseat for many flights!

Originally Posted by flippedr6

kind of off base With what final divert is. Std vfr divert is 1800lbs. For the 145 at C5.But we have had people on short final with runway in sight divert once they hit the 1800. The final divert number says hay dumbass your better choice is to land here we will let you go down an extra 600 pounds so you don’t divert in the flare.

The issue with weight has to do with the new pax weights that they have to use. It’s up to 209, std bags went up as well. Even though cut flew the plane for two decades with the old numbers with no issues. They are trying to get a work around from the feds. One is counting people without personal item which gives a weight credit. Total s show with the new weights.

Originally Posted by dovic91

Pretty sure that extra "final divert" fuel contributes significantly to the overweight issues. The divert fuel is an FAA requirement. The extra reserve fuel is something C5 adds, because they don't trust their pilots and or dispatchers enough to made good decisions regarding fuel. That extra 600 lbs, along with the new weight changes, makes the 145 a 48 seat airplane, with no available jumpseat for many flights!

Originally Posted by BRJPilot

Rarely an FMS issue. Instead, it's another issue with poor training. Both on the dispatcher and pilot side. They simply don't know how to calculate fuel burns accurately. Instead of just a divert fuel number they have one for divert and "final" divert? Why? Because as the story was told, they had people on final, two miles from touching down, getting to divert fuel and diverting to an alternate many miles away. Seems ridiculous, but that's what they were taught. The final divert number is 600 lbs heavier than divert. That 600 lbs makes a big difference on a small jet like the 145. It's part of the reason why C5 flights are so weight restricted. I flew this jet for many years, LR model included, and never had issues with overweight landings like we do now.

Originally Posted by godsnotapilot

600 pounds heavier?

Try again!

Originally Posted by piloto2

Yes, I think it has been clearly established that the 600lbs isn’t correct. But is there any argument over why there are divert/final divert numbers?

Originally Posted by godsnotapilot

Section 3 of the GOM

Divert = Fuel to destination + furthest alternate + 45 minutes (1800 lbs)

Final Divert = Fuel to destination + furthest alternate + 30 minutes (1206 lbs)

If you are going to land with less than 1800 lbs, declare “min fuel”.

If you are going to land with less than 1206 lbs,
declare “Emergency Fuel”.