QOL opinions
03-03-2020, 06:37 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
You can arrange a periodic skip of five days to reset the 10/10 schedule thus avoiding the crews from always working the same days. I’d also reconsider the “60 minute” especially if the plane near a large high rent city. Lots of owners base their planes outside NYC, for example—Oxford or Bradley in CT or Westfield or Westover in MA. Widens your pilot options, reduces costs, can be more attractive to families.
03-03-2020, 09:02 AM
#12
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by Powderkeg
I saw the job advertisement that you posted on the forum, several things came to mind...
The first thing I thought was this job posting is almost exactly proving the theory I postulated for my old employer as I gave my resignation and began an airline career after over two decades in private aviation. The theory was/is that due to the “pilot shortage” there will be TWO types of corporate jet owners: A) operators like you that are focused on retention and and continuity, and B) fractional/charter providers that are focused on cost predictability. If my former employer would’ve been serious about providing the same things you claim to be offering I would’ve never left.
However there was one thing that stuck out about your posting...the type rating requirement. I’ve said the “pilot shortage” isn’t real (in coprporate Aviation) until people begin to waive the type rating requirement. The idea that a department with a budget in the $10’s of millions would limit their search to a fraction of the quality candidates that exist just to save a few bucks is a head-scratcher. You (and others) may have convinced yourselves you’re adding a level of safety but airlines the world over are hiring people with fewer hours than you require (by a factor of 4) and zero jet time and successfully implementing them into two pilot crews in airplanes bigger than you are operating. If you hire a pilot with 5,000 hours and 4,500 multi you should be reasonably assured that they will be successful in training and provide you safe air travel so long as you look at the quality of that time, regardless of the type they flew.
To finish, I’ll add a constructive suggestion for things you can add to sweeten the pot. Guaranteed time off, 401(k), and a preplanned severance. You mention a 10/10 schedule, that’s not unreasonable. But if my 10/10 schedule seems to always have me working on days that I find important then the predictability of the schedule is useless to me. There needs to be a way that several times a year a pilot can say, “I need that day off” and get it.
You didn’t ask for direct compensation suggestions but I have to point out that 6% match is a little light. I was getting more than that at the corporate job that I left. Airlines are hitting the 15-16% mark so maxing out each year is fairly easy. If you’re a financial exec I don’t need to explain to you that if you that even if you pay me $350,000 annually but only match 6% I can’t reach the max even if I do my part and contribute the max the IRS allows. Obviously that leaves my taxable income higher than it needs to be.
And as to the severance suggestion, you are offering a lot of compensation but corporate pilot jobs don’t have the best track record when it comes to longevity. I don’t mean to insult your financial position, I hope you own this airplane(s) forever, but if I was working for you I would be planning my financial future based on some assumptions. If my kid was in private school and I hadn’t been saving for college because of the promise of post-secondary tuition and I end up on the street I have to totally devastate my kid and plans for the future.
Long post, hope something in it was worthwhile for you. Good luck.
The first thing I thought was this job posting is almost exactly proving the theory I postulated for my old employer as I gave my resignation and began an airline career after over two decades in private aviation. The theory was/is that due to the “pilot shortage” there will be TWO types of corporate jet owners: A) operators like you that are focused on retention and and continuity, and B) fractional/charter providers that are focused on cost predictability. If my former employer would’ve been serious about providing the same things you claim to be offering I would’ve never left.
However there was one thing that stuck out about your posting...the type rating requirement. I’ve said the “pilot shortage” isn’t real (in coprporate Aviation) until people begin to waive the type rating requirement. The idea that a department with a budget in the $10’s of millions would limit their search to a fraction of the quality candidates that exist just to save a few bucks is a head-scratcher. You (and others) may have convinced yourselves you’re adding a level of safety but airlines the world over are hiring people with fewer hours than you require (by a factor of 4) and zero jet time and successfully implementing them into two pilot crews in airplanes bigger than you are operating. If you hire a pilot with 5,000 hours and 4,500 multi you should be reasonably assured that they will be successful in training and provide you safe air travel so long as you look at the quality of that time, regardless of the type they flew.
To finish, I’ll add a constructive suggestion for things you can add to sweeten the pot. Guaranteed time off, 401(k), and a preplanned severance. You mention a 10/10 schedule, that’s not unreasonable. But if my 10/10 schedule seems to always have me working on days that I find important then the predictability of the schedule is useless to me. There needs to be a way that several times a year a pilot can say, “I need that day off” and get it.
You didn’t ask for direct compensation suggestions but I have to point out that 6% match is a little light. I was getting more than that at the corporate job that I left. Airlines are hitting the 15-16% mark so maxing out each year is fairly easy. If you’re a financial exec I don’t need to explain to you that if you that even if you pay me $350,000 annually but only match 6% I can’t reach the max even if I do my part and contribute the max the IRS allows. Obviously that leaves my taxable income higher than it needs to be.
And as to the severance suggestion, you are offering a lot of compensation but corporate pilot jobs don’t have the best track record when it comes to longevity. I don’t mean to insult your financial position, I hope you own this airplane(s) forever, but if I was working for you I would be planning my financial future based on some assumptions. If my kid was in private school and I hadn’t been saving for college because of the promise of post-secondary tuition and I end up on the street I have to totally devastate my kid and plans for the future.
Long post, hope something in it was worthwhile for you. Good luck.
The type rating requirement is to say we are looking for someone who has heavy jet experience not necessarily someone who is used to say a King Air and shorter trips. A number of my trips are international and push the aircraft towards its limits.
The 6% match certainly may be light for the aviation industry, but unfortunately that is what is set in place for our family office employees. There are certainly other options in reducing tax exposure and it is something we can review in 2021 when the family office reworks it’s agreements.
With regards to severance I understand and can respect that, it will be something I look into in the coming weeks of expansion.
I appreciate the time you put in to giving me a meaningful response and will explore options as I am able.
03-04-2020, 04:36 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 751
This is a really good start.
A few things that steered me away from staying in the 91 sector from my past experiences-
Annual raises and compensation increases. There was no set raise. The company would no give you a raise if you didn't speak up and most of the time it took them months - if not years to implement small raises. Extremely frustrating. It happened at multiple places with an HR department. Nobody seemed to have the power to swiftly provide annual COLA/raises. Now Im at a place where I don't have to ask. It happens each year.
2- Dont skimp on the low hanging fruit. Pay for medicals, pay for uniforms, pay for all the small things. Don't micromanage food expenses on the road. Treat employees like you want to be treated and they will take care of your principal and clients.
3. Set up a standardization team. Make sure SOPs are well done and are followed. Safety culture is important. Have a good program and leaders for that. It comes down to hiring people that believe and have experience operating in an culture that propagates that.
QOL/PAY are definitely large portions of the pie that people want for long term employment but it comes down to culture as well. I honestly believe a toxic environment will continue to push people away even if the pay is good. If you want to dissuade turnover keep a great team of people and lead by example.
A few things that steered me away from staying in the 91 sector from my past experiences-
Annual raises and compensation increases. There was no set raise. The company would no give you a raise if you didn't speak up and most of the time it took them months - if not years to implement small raises. Extremely frustrating. It happened at multiple places with an HR department. Nobody seemed to have the power to swiftly provide annual COLA/raises. Now Im at a place where I don't have to ask. It happens each year.
2- Dont skimp on the low hanging fruit. Pay for medicals, pay for uniforms, pay for all the small things. Don't micromanage food expenses on the road. Treat employees like you want to be treated and they will take care of your principal and clients.
3. Set up a standardization team. Make sure SOPs are well done and are followed. Safety culture is important. Have a good program and leaders for that. It comes down to hiring people that believe and have experience operating in an culture that propagates that.
QOL/PAY are definitely large portions of the pie that people want for long term employment but it comes down to culture as well. I honestly believe a toxic environment will continue to push people away even if the pay is good. If you want to dissuade turnover keep a great team of people and lead by example.
03-04-2020, 06:36 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: in a Big Box that moves back,forth, up, down and makes cool sounds
Posts: 352
I will pitch in my 2 cents worth.
HARD days off. Days where the Company cell phone gets turned off, goes in the dresser drawer or on the floor in the closet.
I left the Regional airline business to go to work in Corporate Aviation. I worked in two different Corporate jobs. At the second gig, My wife became my mistress- I was actually married to that damned cell phone. That thing was required to be on 24/7/365.
The “Always have your cell-phone” mentality was so bad that on one memorable occasion the Chief Captain Genius called a pilot meeting. The airplane was down for two days for scheduled maintenance.
I showed up at the office without my phone. He asked me where my phone was. I told him I left it at home.
He said, “How in the hell am I supposed to get ahold of you if you don’t have your phone with you?”
I responded that if he need me for something, I was literally standing right in front of him. He didn’t need to call me.
The meeting was so inconsequential that, less than a year later, I cannot remember a single thing that was discussed-
Ridiculous.
The bottom line from my standpoint?
You can throw all the money you want at me. You can Give me rental cars, Marriott Hotels, I can keep the points, blah, blah, blah. But it all means nothing to me without time OFF. No time off means no QOL, which means unhappy pilot.
Best Regards and Good Luck.
HARD days off. Days where the Company cell phone gets turned off, goes in the dresser drawer or on the floor in the closet.
I left the Regional airline business to go to work in Corporate Aviation. I worked in two different Corporate jobs. At the second gig, My wife became my mistress- I was actually married to that damned cell phone. That thing was required to be on 24/7/365.
The “Always have your cell-phone” mentality was so bad that on one memorable occasion the Chief Captain Genius called a pilot meeting. The airplane was down for two days for scheduled maintenance.
I showed up at the office without my phone. He asked me where my phone was. I told him I left it at home.
He said, “How in the hell am I supposed to get ahold of you if you don’t have your phone with you?”
I responded that if he need me for something, I was literally standing right in front of him. He didn’t need to call me.
The meeting was so inconsequential that, less than a year later, I cannot remember a single thing that was discussed-
Ridiculous.
The bottom line from my standpoint?
You can throw all the money you want at me. You can Give me rental cars, Marriott Hotels, I can keep the points, blah, blah, blah. But it all means nothing to me without time OFF. No time off means no QOL, which means unhappy pilot.
Best Regards and Good Luck.
03-05-2020, 07:08 PM
#16
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 39
One factor that drives folks from corporate to the legacies is perceived security. I’m sure we all know folks who were enjoying their corporate job right before the owners sold the jet and laid off the flight department. With a year or two behind a pilot at a legacy, that individual believes that his position is secure barring another 9/11 event.
If you included a strong severance package for the pilots if the owners decided to eliminate the flight department, that would be a huge incentive. When I say strong, I mean 3 years full pay and benefits if the airplane goes away. Perhaps a year severance if the CEO decides he/she just doesn’t like a pilot and wants that pilot terminated. I believe that kind of security would go a long way to maintaining a great work environment and loyal employees.
If you included a strong severance package for the pilots if the owners decided to eliminate the flight department, that would be a huge incentive. When I say strong, I mean 3 years full pay and benefits if the airplane goes away. Perhaps a year severance if the CEO decides he/she just doesn’t like a pilot and wants that pilot terminated. I believe that kind of security would go a long way to maintaining a great work environment and loyal employees.
03-06-2020, 05:30 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Originally Posted by B727 right seat
Pray that you don’t get a CFO who wants to make a name for himself. I have seen first hand three Fortune 50 flight departments evaporate over night.
03-07-2020, 05:29 PM
#19
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
I think this case is a HNWI, not a corporate operator. Big difference.
03-08-2020, 07:00 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 117
I left Corporate because a lack of pay raises and no existing schedule for a raise. Two things that typically stand out in Corporate flying is lack of standardization and schedule. I have a friend that states they are having a hard time finding qualifed pilots. The company requires pilots to live in base. The base is not a desirable place to raise kids. If you have a pilot that has a family and you pay them well and give them a decent schedule, they are more likely going to stay. I miss Corporate flying but I live in the the Northwest and do not want to move my family again. If I could find a Corporate job that I could commute too, work 10 days on/off, and paid well, I would go back to Corporate tommorow. I
miss the variety of flying in Corporate and the rewarding job of providing a high level of service.
miss the variety of flying in Corporate and the rewarding job of providing a high level of service.
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