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Old 10-04-2009, 04:21 PM   #1  
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Default New Type Rating Regs?

Has anyone else heard about new training requirements for initial type ratings for those who have no time in type? The new regs as proposed would mandate that a person with less than 500 hours time in type would have to do all the standard ground and sim training with a 142 school, then go do 2 IAPs (1 ILS, 1 non prec) and one take off and one landing.

If one has more than 500hrs in the airplane as SIC, then the standard upgrade training is all that is required.

My source: A training program manager at SimuFlite.
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:30 PM   #2  
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From the proposed rule, which goes into effect on Oct 20th:

61.64 Use of a flight simulator and flight training device.

Quote:
(2) If the type rating is for a turbojet airplane, the applicant must—

(i) Hold a type rating in a turbojet airplane of the same class of airplane, and that type rating may not contain a supervised operating experience limitation;

(ii) Have 1,000 hours of flight time in two different turbojet airplanes of the same class of airplane;

(iii) Have been appointed by the U.S. Armed Forces as pilot in command in a turbojet airplane of the same class of airplane; or

(iv) Have 500 hours of flight time in the same type of airplane.

(3) If the type rating is for a turbo propeller airplane, the applicant must—

(i) Hold a type rating in a turbo-propeller airplane of the same class of airplane, and that type rating may not contain a supervised operating experience limitation;

(ii) Have 1,000 hours of flight time in two different turbo-propeller airplanes of the same class of airplane;

(iii) Have been appointed by the U.S. Armed Forces as pilot in command in a turbo-propeller airplane of the same class of airplane; or

(iv) Have 500 hours of flight time in the same type of airplane.

(4) If the applicant does not meet the requirements of paragraph (a)(2) or (a)(3) of this section, then—

(i) The applicant must complete the following tasks on the practical test in the airplane of the category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable) for which the airplane rating applies: preflight inspection, normal takeoff, normal instrument landing system approach, missed approach, and normal landing.


(ii) After passing the practical test, the applicant's pilot certificate must state: “The [name the category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable)] is subject to additional pilot in command limitations,” and the applicant is restricted from serving as pilot in command in that category, class, and type of airplane rating (if a type rating is applicable).

(iii) The limitation described under paragraph (a)(4)(ii) of this section may be removed from the applicant's pilot certificate if the applicant—

(A) Logs 25 hours of flight time in the category and class of airplane for the rating sought, and if a type rating is being sought, the flight time must be performed in the same type of airplane for the type rating sought;

(B) Performs 25 hours of flight time under the direct observation of the pilot in command who holds the appropriate airplane category, class, and type rating, without limitations, in the same category, class, and type of airplane rating, if a type rating is applicable;

(C) Logs each flight and the pilot in command who observed the flight attests to each flight;

(D) Obtains the flight time while in the pilot in command seat of the appropriate airplane category, class, and type, if a type rating is appropriate; and

(E) Has an Examiner review the pilot logbook and endorse that logbook, attesting to compliance with the required supervised operating experience.
While I think I understand the logic behind such a change (principally geared toward new VLJ pilots) its really going to be a PITA for pilots transitioning to their first jet...
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:23 PM   #3  
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Thanks man,

Yeah, it's gonna be a real PITA. It'll probably have a negative affect on 142 schools as well since they can't issue initial types to guys with no flight time in the airplane.

I was going to get a free type from SimuFlite through their right seat program, but I guess that's going to change now...

It kinda makes sense for the VLJs though...
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:32 PM   #4  
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So you have to have 500 hours in type before you can hold an unrestricted PIC rating even if you meet the other three requirements.... wow, that'll be interesting.
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:41 AM   #5  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76 View Post
So you have to have 500 hours in type before you can hold an unrestricted PIC rating even if you meet the other three requirements.... wow, that'll be interesting.
No.

Consider each numbered requirement (i, ii, iii, iv) to be an "OR" statement.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:30 AM   #6  
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"(ii) Have 1,000 hours of flight time in two different turbojet airplanes of the same class of airplane;"

Does this mean you need 1000 hours in EACH different airplane for a total of 2000 hours or , for example, 990 hours in a lear 35 and 10 hours in a Citation?
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:30 AM   #7  
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Originally Posted by BoilerUP View Post
No.

Consider each numbered requirement (i, ii, iii, iv) to be an "OR" statement.
That would be logical, but then again, we're dealing with the FAA.
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:03 PM   #8  
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Why the change? Is this to conform to ICAO or just a new FAA rule?
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:16 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76 View Post
That would be logical, but then again, we're dealing with the FAA.
I just talked to a regulations guy who works for a leading un-named Part 142 training school. He said the way the reg (61.64) is written a TJ or TP pilot must satisfy all of the conditions (1-4) to have an unrestricted type rating based on a sim type rating test. There are many semi-colons ";" between the statements and they are not "or". He also said if you read on in the reg the helicopter guys only have to satisfy one of the four conditions. They are working in trying to get the reg changed but the FAA is involved. He also said there are huge economic overtones to the new reg and the FAA never did a study on it. An operator may have to ferry a jet from MT to Chicago to meet up with an FAA examiner. This was suppose to be a move of the reg from one location to another within Part 61 and they lost the 2000 hour and 500 TJ time clause.

Hopefully they will change it back but hope is not a strategy.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:28 PM   #10  
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I'm OK with the reg if it included some "ors." Say I'm typed in a 737 and E-190 with thousands of hours between the two planes and I'm currently flying as a captain with not even a circling limitation, it's rather lame that if I was to get typed in an A320, I'd have a limitation slapped on my A320 type because I don't have 500 hours in type.
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