Falcon 7X Grounded - Emergency AD
05-26-2011, 07:56 AM
#1
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Falcon 7X Grounded - Emergency AD
Just got word that the 7X is grounded due to a runway trim condition. Talked to our 7x instructors who said redundant automation should have prevented that. Anybody with more info?
05-26-2011, 08:09 AM
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05-28-2011, 10:11 AM
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Hats off to the crew for flying the airplane all the way to a safe landing.
Correct me if I am wrong...
A. 7X & the soon to be released G650 are designed as FBW w/ the computers interpreting the pilots input and making inputs to the flight control surfaces and no manual reversion of the flight controls. In a similar vein the AB380 and the B787 are also fully FBW w/out manual reversion.
B. The engineers/statisticians, during the certification process, claim these aircraft 'should' have a 1 in 1x10 to the ninth or so anomaly w/ this grave of a circumstance.
C. The 7x will not have another runaway trim incident in the it's lifetime of use.
Logic dictates that since both A and B are true then C must be true.
Call me old fashioned...but I still want some sort of manual reversion should the computers decide to pull a MS blue screen of death while inflight.
Correct me if I am wrong...
A. 7X & the soon to be released G650 are designed as FBW w/ the computers interpreting the pilots input and making inputs to the flight control surfaces and no manual reversion of the flight controls. In a similar vein the AB380 and the B787 are also fully FBW w/out manual reversion.
B. The engineers/statisticians, during the certification process, claim these aircraft 'should' have a 1 in 1x10 to the ninth or so anomaly w/ this grave of a circumstance.
C. The 7x will not have another runaway trim incident in the it's lifetime of use.
Logic dictates that since both A and B are true then C must be true.
Call me old fashioned...but I still want some sort of manual reversion should the computers decide to pull a MS blue screen of death while inflight.
05-31-2011, 12:22 PM
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Correct on the Fly by wire. As to the chances of a failure, I'm sure the crew of UAL 232 (uncontained failure of #2 that cuts all three hydraulic systems) would say don't bet your life on the odds!
05-31-2011, 01:55 PM
#6
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7X is back flying (ferry only for now) and they say a fix is almost ready....at least the first part of one to get it back in service.
The FCS itself really did what it was supposed to, the question is why didn't the system downgrade to a lower level (as designed) with a nose-up trim motor runaway. Nose down was more my concern, but nose down trim runaway is designed to be fully overcome with stick pressure alone...
Initial understanding is that a manual pitch reversion switch will be installed.
Hopefully FBW will continue to advance with minor hiccups only...remember when 737s were losing rudders left and right? everyone still hops on those everyday.
Get used to FBW - its not going away....and despite some concerning, odd $hit like this LOL, I have no problem flying any FBW airplane..in the big picture it will make flying far more efficient and safer.
The FCS itself really did what it was supposed to, the question is why didn't the system downgrade to a lower level (as designed) with a nose-up trim motor runaway. Nose down was more my concern, but nose down trim runaway is designed to be fully overcome with stick pressure alone...
Initial understanding is that a manual pitch reversion switch will be installed.
Hopefully FBW will continue to advance with minor hiccups only...remember when 737s were losing rudders left and right? everyone still hops on those everyday.
Get used to FBW - its not going away....and despite some concerning, odd $hit like this LOL, I have no problem flying any FBW airplane..in the big picture it will make flying far more efficient and safer.
05-31-2011, 04:29 PM
#7
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I spent a career flying a FBW airplane and I'll take the advantages of FBW over the disadvantages any day. Yes - a well designed system will have some type of back-up and I'm sure that the designers will figure this glitch out too. You are still propelling yourself into an area that we (as people) weren't suppose to be (naturally at least 
), so there is going to be some inherent risk.
In my opinion it is foolhardy to think that a man-made system is going to be foolproof. I mean come on - - even the Vipers in Battlestar Gallatica and the X-Wing fighters of Star Wars fame had mechanical glitches!
I'd jump on a 7X tomorrow and have a go at it if someone (ANYONE) let me
USMCFLYR
), so there is going to be some inherent risk. In my opinion it is foolhardy to think that a man-made system is going to be foolproof. I mean come on - - even the Vipers in Battlestar Gallatica and the X-Wing fighters of Star Wars fame had mechanical glitches!
I'd jump on a 7X tomorrow and have a go at it if someone (ANYONE) let me
USMCFLYR
06-01-2011, 11:33 AM
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The big shocker was the side stick on the 7x instead of the standard wheel. When I first saw it..."Where the heck is the control column!!!!" Very CLEAN cockpit look with the stick.
06-02-2011, 12:22 AM
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Crap SparKen: I meant to respond to your post and inadverently edited your post instead. My apologies.
Now this is something that I would like to see in EVERY aircraft, but of course I might be bias
USMCFLYR
A dedicated AoA indicator in the cockpit is another must have...
USMCFLYR
Last edited by USMCFLYR; 06-02-2011 at 04:18 AM. Reason: spelling
06-02-2011, 05:21 AM
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A dedicated AoA indicator in the cockpit is another must have...
USMCFLYR
(From his interview on AF447)
He explained, "One of the things we could do ... is to provide and display directly in the cockpit critical angle of attack information; this angle of the air flow over the wing information that the airplane already measures, but is not displayed to the pilot. Had they had the information displayed directly into the cockpit, it would have helped them if they were trained to use it effectively."
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