Grumble

Bingo. I'm with you. Engineers and statisticians can quote all the numbers in the world, if the probability is anything more than zero, they can roll the dice with their own ass in the seat.

Prior to UAL 232 in Sioux City, someone pointed out the fact that the DC-10 had all the hydraulic systems bottle necked past the #2 engine, and "What if" an uncontained engine failure severed all the lines? The engineers postulated that the chance of that happening was something on the order of 1:10 million. Guess what, it happened. The only reason everyone on board didn't perish was you had an A-list group of guys on board, that happened to bring their A-game that day, to an aiport that just-so-happened to have a mass casualty drill the day prior, at a time when the hospital was changing over shifts and was double staffed to handle the patients.

Ramble off statistics all day, 1:anything makes anything possible.

USMC, the Hornet is a great FBW a/c (phenominal actually) however the A-D still have mechanical reversion when the lights go out, or the trons stop flowing. I've seen it!!!

USMCFLYR

Wasn't the casualty drill going on the day of?

And impossible to cover ALL bases. There is SOME risk that you just can't get around.

Hey - cut me some slack here!
I haven't been out THAT long and I still have a NATOPS!
I did cover MECH in my original post too when I said "...a well designed system will have some type of back-up...."

USMCFLYR

Grumble

I thought it was the day prior, either way... a phenominal stroke of luck.

Figured you were getting old and had forgotten your old steed already.

Std Deviation

It was the year prior. Gary Brown the director of emergency services got in a sling with management because they thought it was a huge waste of time. The day of, it was shift change at the hospital and the air guard was on drill at the field. They took emergency response time from 4 hours from scene to hospital (previous drills) to less than 1 hour. NTSB says 40 patients survived based on this alone. I teach CRM initial. This is one we look at EXTENSIVELY.

SparKen

Couldn't have said it any better, not when it is my rear in a sling and the hopes and dreams of loved ones that I come back in one piece.

Grumble

"So you're telling me there's a chance!"

SparKen

USMCFLYR,
I will give you a pass this time, just don't expect me to pick up the tab for the first one at the bar....

727gm

The Hornet, or at least the F-16, is FBW because the aircraft is unstable for max maueverability, so that a computer must be in the loop to make it flyable.

A transport is by defination STABLE, so if it's not too large, a person should be able to fly it without FBW. So why no mechanical backup?

Engineers have nothing on the line, and are insulated from pilots (probably by their managers).

At least the Hornet has an ejection seat.

Std Deviation

In 1996 the FAA came out with a report detailing automation issues. The revised report (written this year) is expected to come out soon. One of the primary concerns/revelations about the new generation of aircraft is: Failure modes are unanticipated by the designers; hence, no checklist, procedures, or guidance. There's unanticipated interactions between systems that makes diagnosis and recovery extremely difficult. Here at this 142 school, we are focused on "need to know." Which means unless the pilot is fluent in Boolean logic, all we do is refer you to a checklist which may or may not solve the problem. In the F-18/F-16 you can vacate the aircraft as a means of last resort. The corporate guys have to try to work out the problem to get a somewhat flyable aircraft.

Grumble

I can't think of a single Hornet ejection in recent memory caused by a failure of the flight control system. Everyone I know, including myself, know at least on a rudimentary level how to trouble shoot it. I carry a pocket guide with a list of the 1000+ BLIN fault codes the FCS can generate, so that I can look it up and work from there.

Granted we do have a seat, but it's not like we get a caution and punch. If that were the case I'd have ejected out of at least 100 airplanes by now.