Flyboy8784

Hey Folks,

Relatively new to the 601 (about 100 hours) but I got almost 4000 hours in the CRJ-200

The other Captain I fly with has about 1000 hours in the plane but is primarily a GIV driver with 20 years experience. Im convinced the 601 scares the crap out of him every time he flies it. Talkin about how scary the wing is and little tires and little brakes and on and on and on. I know its not a GIV but I wanna give the plane a little credit right? It damn sure ain't an RJ.

Anyway here's my question to you guys. Do you guys Maintain 10 degrees pitch MAX in your climb out? I remember from my RJ days that an AD came out saying it was no more than 10 degrees on rotation and no more than 3 degrees per second.

This guy pitches for 10, keeps it there and pulls the power back to maintain 200 kts and lowers it to about 6-7 degrees to hit 250 for the climb out, increasing to 280/.74 in the high speed climb.

Now not that i'm saying there is anything wrong with what he's doin, but I feel he's not letting the airplane fly. we get climb rates of 22-2800 FPM like that. and me personally? I feel like he's wasting fuel that way...despite the wing being more "efficient" at high speeds.

What do you guys do? I'm gonna post this in the charter section too so I can get some responses back from both sides of the fence. Many Thanks!!!

The dude

Can't imagine why anyone would want to climb at anything less than climb thrust to get to the flight levels sooner. Climbing with reduced thrust like that is nothing but a waste of time and fuel. I agree with you. (and you wouldn't climb at under climb thrust in the G-IV either)

Manny

Maybe he just wants to be a "smooth operator." I wouldn't use airline logic to explain corporate finesse and I have a feeling that's what this one is about.

Flyboy8784

Well thats what Im saying....I know how this wing works, When I fly Left seat without him I keep it at T/O Power and transition to ITT Climb and i can get 5-6000 feet per minute with a 250 knot sea level climb.

I seriously think he's deathly afraid of being slow or stalling the wing (in which case he shouldnt be climbing out at 80% N1). But he has to fly it that way if he wants to maintain 10 degrees pitch, otherwise at takeoff power youll be climbing out at 300 knots

tennesseeflyboy

Hey FB, sounds like this guy is spoiled with GIV flying , the 601 is an excellent flying jet , don't let the passengers brow beat you guys about flying it like a jet ......... Nothing worse than back seat wannabe flyers ...........

FlyerJosh

Don't fly the 601, but I do fly the 604...

Down below 10000' I generally limit my climb rate to less than about 3300 FPM just for passenger comfort. At takeoff, pitch initially for about 12 degrees then transition to VS. clean up, set climb thrust (auto throttles) and pitch for a comfortable deck angle (~3000 FPM).

Passing 10000', pitch for 1500 FPM and accelerate to 310-320 KIAS then climb at that indicated until VS drops to 1000' FPM. Climb at 1000 FPM until you can't any more/transition to Mach then maintain .72-.74 Mach for final climb.

Captain Quint

I was in a very similar situation. I flew a 601-3A for many years with a guy (still a good friend and almost neighbor). Across the years we flew 2 different serials. He came from years in a G-IV. I came from a Challenger 600. He constantly eschewed the 601’s short comings which in my opinion where none unless you wanted it to be a G-IV. But we essentially flew the same climb profile:
Once cleaned up set climb N1 (830 ITT was usually very close). Pitch for 250 KIAS. This usually yielded 4000fpm initially. Even with full fuel. At 10K used 300K to M0.75. If we were light we would sometimes climb at M0.80 (5-600fpm) at the Mach change over.

Climbto450

I second this, corporate flight departments usually value passenger comfort (such as lower deck angles and smooth turns)over a little bit of fuel savings. I flew both the 601-3A/R and the Gulfstream 3/450/V/550 and yes the Cl600 series lacks on many levels, it is perfectly safe and super efficient, but it is not even in the same ballpark as a Gulfstream. I stopped comparing them a long time ago and started to appreciate the CL for the quality aircraft that it is.