Pondering 121 Again...
08-08-2013, 06:43 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
Forgot to bid... Ditto times 1000!
I could have written the same exact piece, except from an AA point of view. And, of course, hopeful that the new AA under Parker/Kirby becomes the next Delta.
Note: not a slam to my corporate buddies... Most of them are perfectly happy where they are and wouldn't ever switch to a major 121, for the same reasons FTB and myself love 121.
I could have written the same exact piece, except from an AA point of view. And, of course, hopeful that the new AA under Parker/Kirby becomes the next Delta.
Note: not a slam to my corporate buddies... Most of them are perfectly happy where they are and wouldn't ever switch to a major 121, for the same reasons FTB and myself love 121.
08-08-2013, 08:38 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
I'm regional Part 121 -> Part 135 -> Part 91/135 -> Major Part 121.
First question: Think of the major you'd like to go to- would you end up commuting on purpose for a long time? If that's the plan, you'll be miserable.
Second question: How much of a heads up would you get if your current job was going away? If someone walked in and said the boss is getting a divorce, would you need to be concerned? Or rumors that every part of the company is cutting costs by 30% across the board no questions asked and oh there is a rumor the company might merge or be bought out, would that concern you? If those concern you, majors aren't too bad at all.
Final question: If you lost your job, how easy could you find another where you currently are? Or can you think of a place that would hire you even if they didn't have an opening? If the answer is no about any of that, well we're hiring soon-ish.
Here's what I saw firsthand. RJ world sucked. Training and flight ops wasn't necessarily bad but the pay was bad mostly because upgrades were slow. The pay was more heavily weighted towards Captains. Anyways, add in commuting, RJ work rules, uncommutable trips, blah blah I quit.
The second go around in 121 world was after being the pilot, chief pilot, maintenance coordinator, charter sales guy (not officially of course), punching bag, building manager, fueler, ramper, etc. The second go around has been nothing but bi winning awesomeness because:
In the next 4-5 years I move up to around 85th percentile of the seniority list, 5 years after that I'm around 50%. For a little background, I was hired almost 6 years ago, for the first few months I commuted at Delta to JFK flying the 767 internationally, it was an easy commute. Then I flew it out of Atlanta where I lived, even easier commute I only had to do once a month. I displaced to the 88 and now 88/90 and while I could've jumped to other airplanes I went for QOL (weekends off, got holidays and christmas off). Now to the 717 to get more senior.
Now for all of that and flying the bottom rung airplane group as an FO mostly on reserve (intentionally) and flying about 500 hours a year, I've grossed $72K in the first 7 months of this year and I guess you could say on pace for $120K in gross earnings for the year. Next year 7th year pay on the 717 I'll be around the same place I was this year because it's a slight paycut. And mind you, that's the bottom paying plane, most of the time the lowest number of hours paid for the month and no overtime. I go up one airplane and it's a huge difference in pay upwards. And that's before we talk SWA pay.
So, I aim to be home and I am. I wouldn't go back to corporate unless they paid me upfront what DAL would pay me as a 73 CA for the next 30 years plus 15% and I was assured all weekends and holidays off and... I can tell you're laughing.
But you get the point, I've been in and out of 121 and in and out of 91/135. It's just what I saw. A well run flight department at a good company is a great deal but of course I saw that with BellSouth's flight department here in ATL and they no longer exist. It's nice not to tell the family I'm going to TEB tomorrow and will be back the next day and then call back and said the boss wants you to take the G550 to Turkey (not naming names here
) and I'll be back in 2 weeks. If you're going to commute by choice for 2-3 decades, you'll hate this job pretty quickly. If you bid because the size of the jet is what matters and you bid it as soon as you can then don't complain too much about not being home on weekends and holidays. Besides, chances are you'll burn more gas on one leg with the small jet at the major than the corporate jet you're flying weighed at MTOW... you have no excuse on chasing big jets because of the ego.
The majors, at least mine, is a really great job and I am thankful I have it and that comes from someone who studied every May and August issue of B/CA because I loved loved corporate airplanes. I thought it's what I wanted for a career, but now, I'm just thrilled I got to come here and so is my wife and my kids.
Hope it helps shed some light on the subject.
First question: Think of the major you'd like to go to- would you end up commuting on purpose for a long time? If that's the plan, you'll be miserable.
Second question: How much of a heads up would you get if your current job was going away? If someone walked in and said the boss is getting a divorce, would you need to be concerned? Or rumors that every part of the company is cutting costs by 30% across the board no questions asked and oh there is a rumor the company might merge or be bought out, would that concern you? If those concern you, majors aren't too bad at all.
Final question: If you lost your job, how easy could you find another where you currently are? Or can you think of a place that would hire you even if they didn't have an opening? If the answer is no about any of that, well we're hiring soon-ish.
Here's what I saw firsthand. RJ world sucked. Training and flight ops wasn't necessarily bad but the pay was bad mostly because upgrades were slow. The pay was more heavily weighted towards Captains. Anyways, add in commuting, RJ work rules, uncommutable trips, blah blah I quit.
The second go around in 121 world was after being the pilot, chief pilot, maintenance coordinator, charter sales guy (not officially of course), punching bag, building manager, fueler, ramper, etc. The second go around has been nothing but bi winning awesomeness because:
- Now, I no longer have to ask for holidays off,
- I didn't have to have a type to apply (that's not a shot at SWA though, the only reason I got my Part 135/91 job is because I was already typed and when I tried to hire for the job the boss' basic requirement was that he didn't have to pay for a type and they needed to have had their Part 135 line check in the last 12 months? I can't remember the rule),
- I no longer have to ask off for any day in advance and listen to someone balk at the request and say "look at all of the days you didn't fly last month"...
- I can make plans in advance with certainty for the following month around the 15th of this month,
- Even with my current seniority even around 80% on the 88 in ATL, I can make plans in advance with certainty for any month and know I'll get what I want but I might bid reserve to get it,
- My absence no longer means an airplane is grounded,
- It's okay to be sick.
- It's okay to attend a family members funeral with pay and no airplane is grounded,
- I write something up and I leave and am no longer on the phone into the wee hours of the morning because an important charter is at 9am the next morning and I need a tire. OR, the tire went low sitting in the hangar (thanks Goodyear, great stuff) and it's thanksgiving day and the airplane is booked for lucrative part 135 charters for the next 5 days) and I can't find someone to put the tire on nor convince someone to ship it counter-to-counter. Like I said, I leave.
- I schmooze the customers if and when I want,
- Someone fuels the airplane, without me saying a word. Usually before I get there. I don't have to come in early to get it fueled. I just show up, see what they gave me and go, and if turns out not to be enough, I divert before it's a problem. And fill up and go again.
- I don't have to order catering and teach the contract FA where everything is and pray she doesn't spill red something or other on the expensive carpet like the last FA did,
- If we're going to go out of business I'll have a big warning and it'd take years to get there,
- My airplanes are used heavily on the holidays just like they were before, but I don't have to stay wherever the customers are going for their holiday. I can drop them off and go home. Every leg is a drop off in that sense.
- Long layovers are 32 hours. Sometimes 48 but that's on the international side.
- If I buy a vaccum, it's for my house and not an airplane and nobody is going to call me and ask why I bought it since I bought a $45 one two years ago.
- My wife never questions whether we needed a rental car, which is the only time I ever rent one.
- They put 15% into my 401k, without me doing anything.
- If I come in on a day off, 2x pay which puts a day trip around 10 hours of pay, a 2 day at 20, and so on - at a minimum. If I'm on reserve and say being paid 78 hours for the month, whatever hours I flew on my day off are on top of the 78 and I get those days back immediately. So if I took up overtime flying on the first days of the month and had those off I'd get those hours paid above guarantee and the days off back which I could then go out and fly overtime on again and so on and by the time it's said and done the lucky guy who pulls that off made 140 hours to 200 hours on 70-80 hours of flying.
- If the boss gets a divorce, I don't care, I won't even know.
- Tax write off? I'm good, I have lots of them... oh MACRS? Yeah, I don't care any more. Nor do I care about A008. And nobody here knows what the heck an 8130 form is.
- You know how many people call me on Saturday morning at 9am to run over the numbers on how the jet is doing? ZERO.
- Sure I work for the same company but if you moved around airplanes or bases it's like working at different companies. So you get a change of pace.
- If the boss' nephew becomes a pilot, I don't care. It doesn't mean I'll have to fly with him as soon as he passes his commercial.
- If the guy you're flying with sucks, just know you won't see him after your 2-day, 3-day or 4-day trip ends (international is 6, 9 and occasionally 12 days). Then put him on your no-fly list.
- I don't have to call the maintenance shop and lie that the check is in the mail when it isn't because the boss doesn't pay up on time.
- When you refer to something as a wide-body, you mean Boeing 767 or larger, not Canadair Challengers.
- 2 weeks of vacation becomes 3 and then 4 and then 5 in a decent amount of time.
- Did I mention I have days off in advance? On reserve its 12 days wherever your seniority allows you to have them. Flying a line is generally around 14-18 off. I've seen in the 20s before. If you're in need of cash, you can fly more.
In the next 4-5 years I move up to around 85th percentile of the seniority list, 5 years after that I'm around 50%. For a little background, I was hired almost 6 years ago, for the first few months I commuted at Delta to JFK flying the 767 internationally, it was an easy commute. Then I flew it out of Atlanta where I lived, even easier commute I only had to do once a month. I displaced to the 88 and now 88/90 and while I could've jumped to other airplanes I went for QOL (weekends off, got holidays and christmas off). Now to the 717 to get more senior.
Now for all of that and flying the bottom rung airplane group as an FO mostly on reserve (intentionally) and flying about 500 hours a year, I've grossed $72K in the first 7 months of this year and I guess you could say on pace for $120K in gross earnings for the year. Next year 7th year pay on the 717 I'll be around the same place I was this year because it's a slight paycut. And mind you, that's the bottom paying plane, most of the time the lowest number of hours paid for the month and no overtime. I go up one airplane and it's a huge difference in pay upwards. And that's before we talk SWA pay.
So, I aim to be home and I am. I wouldn't go back to corporate unless they paid me upfront what DAL would pay me as a 73 CA for the next 30 years plus 15% and I was assured all weekends and holidays off and... I can tell you're laughing.
But you get the point, I've been in and out of 121 and in and out of 91/135. It's just what I saw. A well run flight department at a good company is a great deal but of course I saw that with BellSouth's flight department here in ATL and they no longer exist. It's nice not to tell the family I'm going to TEB tomorrow and will be back the next day and then call back and said the boss wants you to take the G550 to Turkey (not naming names here
) and I'll be back in 2 weeks. If you're going to commute by choice for 2-3 decades, you'll hate this job pretty quickly. If you bid because the size of the jet is what matters and you bid it as soon as you can then don't complain too much about not being home on weekends and holidays. Besides, chances are you'll burn more gas on one leg with the small jet at the major than the corporate jet you're flying weighed at MTOW... you have no excuse on chasing big jets because of the ego. The majors, at least mine, is a really great job and I am thankful I have it and that comes from someone who studied every May and August issue of B/CA because I loved loved corporate airplanes. I thought it's what I wanted for a career, but now, I'm just thrilled I got to come here and so is my wife and my kids.
Hope it helps shed some light on the subject.
08-08-2013, 10:16 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Just to rebut some of this at my shop, Forgot to Bid
Now, I no longer have to ask for holidays off,
Got me there
I didn't have to have a type to apply (that's not a shot at SWA though, the only reason I got my Part 135/91 job is because I was already typed and when I tried to hire for the job the boss' basic requirement was that he didn't have to pay for a type and they needed to have had their Part 135 line check in the last 12 months? I can't remember the rule),
We type our guys, most actually don't have a type. Several did, however.
I no longer have to ask off for any day in advance and listen to someone balk at the request and say "look at all of the days you didn't fly last month"...
We can ask for hard off days, in advance, but you'll get what seviority buys you. We get 13 "hard off" each 30 days and fly some, but not all if the 17 others. I did about 12 last 17.
I can make plans in advance with certainty for the following month around the 15th of this month, We can, too, but have 5 pilots per plane.
Even with my current seniority even around 80% on the 88 in ATL, I can make plans in advance with certainty for any month and know I'll get what I want but I might bid reserve to get it,
My absence no longer means an airplane is grounded, 5-6 per plane solves that problem.
It's okay to be sick. See manning above
It's okay to attend a family members funeral with pay and no airplane is grounded, I've had two deaths in the family, both times, a text message and all the time I needed was granted. Took 4 weeks in one case
I write something up and I leave and am no longer on the phone into the wee hours of the morning because an important charter is at 9am the next morning and I need a tire. OR, the tire went low sitting in the hangar (thanks Goodyear, great stuff) and it's thanksgiving day and the airplane is booked for lucrative part 135 charters for the next 5 days) and I can't find someone to put the tire on nor convince someone to ship it counter-to-counter. Like I said, I leave. Our specific instructions is to give the problem to our techs and walk away. Phones off during crew rest periods
I schmooze the customers if and when I want, Got me beat, sometimes the job is to schmooze
Someone fuels the airplane, without me saying a word. Usually before I get there. I don't have to come in early to get it fueled. I just show up, see what they gave me and go, and if turns out not to be enough, I divert before it's a problem. And fill up and go again. Carry what I want, order it thru the techs or handler, do have to fuel during pre-flight
I don't have to order catering and teach the contract FA where everything is and pray she doesn't spill red something or other on the expensive carpet like the last FA did, On staff F/As do a great job, mostly ex-airline of yacht stewardesses
If we're going to go out of business I'll have a big warning and it'd take years to get there, Same here
My airplanes are used heavily on the holidays just like they were before, but I don't have to stay wherever the customers are going for their holiday. I can drop them off and go home. Every leg is a drop off in that sense. Got me again
Long layovers are 32 hours. Sometimes 48 but that's on the international side. Depends on your tastes, I like long layovers usually; my wife isn't a traveler so it works for me.
If I buy a vaccum, it's for my house and not an airplane and nobody is going to call me and ask why I bought it since I bought a $45 one two years ago. Same here
My wife never questions whether we needed a rental car, which is the only time I ever rent one. Never a question and cars solve the transportation to dinner problem. Full expense reimbursement.
They put 15% into my 401k, without me doing anything. Have pension, plus 5% 401k match
If I come in on a day off, 2x pay which puts a day trip around 10 hours of pay, a 2 day at 20, and so on - at a minimum. If I'm on reserve and say being paid 78 hours for the month, whatever hours I flew on my day off are on top of the 78 and I get those days back immediately. So if I took up overtime flying on the first days of the month and had those off I'd get those hours paid above guarantee and the days off back which I could then go out and fly overtime on again and so on and by the time it's said and done the lucky guy who pulls that off made 140 hours to 200 hours on 70-80 hours of flying. Straight salary, so no overtime, boo. But not bidding around 300 permutations of rules, keeps it simple
If the boss gets a divorce, I don't care, I won't even know. Same here
Tax write off? I'm good, I have lots of them... oh MACRS? Yeah, I don't care any more. Nor do I care about A008. And nobody here knows what the heck an 8130 form is. I don't, either.
You know how many people call me on Saturday morning at 9am to run over the numbers on how the jet is doing? ZERO. ZERO, here
Sure I work for the same company but if you moved around airplanes or bases it's like working at different companies. So you get a change of pace.
If the boss' nephew becomes a pilot, I don't care. It doesn't mean I'll have to fly with him as soon as he passes his commercial. Same here, don't fly with anyone that exclusively a pilot
If the guy you're flying with sucks, just know you won't see him after your 2-day, 3-day or 4-day trip ends (international is 6, 9 and occasionally 12 days). Then put him on your no-fly list. True and great, we do get to pick who we hire, tho
I don't have to call the maintenance shop and lie that the check is in the mail when it isn't because the boss doesn't pay up on time. Same here, the mgr if mx dies that.
When you refer to something as a wide-body, you mean Boeing 767 or larger, not Canadair Challengers. Give you that one and I fly Challengers and Globals. 4,000 hours of C-5 cured me of big jet syndrome.
2 weeks of vacation becomes 3 and then 4 and then 5 in a decent amount of time. That's what I get, except for 5 years. Points gets me a free hotel and sometimes airline ticket, too
Did I mention I have days off in advance? On reserve its 12 days wherever your seniority allows you to have them. Flying a line is generally around 14-18 off. I've seen in the 20s before. If you're in need of cash, you can fly more.
Don't get me wrong, majors are the BEST flying career, however, please don't compare the best airline job with the worst charter job. Believe me, in my job, I've seen bad ones that might make regionals look good except for the six-figure paycheck.
As I said, lots of good guys aren't going to make the majors or will stagnant at one. A friend at UPS with 12 years is resigned to permanent F/O, works most holidays, has little control and commutes, he hates it. I loved EAL, loved the people, loved the schedule, but, like so many airline careers, it didn't work out.
Respectfully, GF
Now, I no longer have to ask for holidays off,
Got me there
I didn't have to have a type to apply (that's not a shot at SWA though, the only reason I got my Part 135/91 job is because I was already typed and when I tried to hire for the job the boss' basic requirement was that he didn't have to pay for a type and they needed to have had their Part 135 line check in the last 12 months? I can't remember the rule),
We type our guys, most actually don't have a type. Several did, however.
I no longer have to ask off for any day in advance and listen to someone balk at the request and say "look at all of the days you didn't fly last month"...
We can ask for hard off days, in advance, but you'll get what seviority buys you. We get 13 "hard off" each 30 days and fly some, but not all if the 17 others. I did about 12 last 17.
I can make plans in advance with certainty for the following month around the 15th of this month, We can, too, but have 5 pilots per plane.
Even with my current seniority even around 80% on the 88 in ATL, I can make plans in advance with certainty for any month and know I'll get what I want but I might bid reserve to get it,
My absence no longer means an airplane is grounded, 5-6 per plane solves that problem.
It's okay to be sick. See manning above
It's okay to attend a family members funeral with pay and no airplane is grounded, I've had two deaths in the family, both times, a text message and all the time I needed was granted. Took 4 weeks in one case
I write something up and I leave and am no longer on the phone into the wee hours of the morning because an important charter is at 9am the next morning and I need a tire. OR, the tire went low sitting in the hangar (thanks Goodyear, great stuff) and it's thanksgiving day and the airplane is booked for lucrative part 135 charters for the next 5 days) and I can't find someone to put the tire on nor convince someone to ship it counter-to-counter. Like I said, I leave. Our specific instructions is to give the problem to our techs and walk away. Phones off during crew rest periods
I schmooze the customers if and when I want, Got me beat, sometimes the job is to schmooze
Someone fuels the airplane, without me saying a word. Usually before I get there. I don't have to come in early to get it fueled. I just show up, see what they gave me and go, and if turns out not to be enough, I divert before it's a problem. And fill up and go again. Carry what I want, order it thru the techs or handler, do have to fuel during pre-flight
I don't have to order catering and teach the contract FA where everything is and pray she doesn't spill red something or other on the expensive carpet like the last FA did, On staff F/As do a great job, mostly ex-airline of yacht stewardesses
If we're going to go out of business I'll have a big warning and it'd take years to get there, Same here
My airplanes are used heavily on the holidays just like they were before, but I don't have to stay wherever the customers are going for their holiday. I can drop them off and go home. Every leg is a drop off in that sense. Got me again
Long layovers are 32 hours. Sometimes 48 but that's on the international side. Depends on your tastes, I like long layovers usually; my wife isn't a traveler so it works for me.
If I buy a vaccum, it's for my house and not an airplane and nobody is going to call me and ask why I bought it since I bought a $45 one two years ago. Same here
My wife never questions whether we needed a rental car, which is the only time I ever rent one. Never a question and cars solve the transportation to dinner problem. Full expense reimbursement.
They put 15% into my 401k, without me doing anything. Have pension, plus 5% 401k match
If I come in on a day off, 2x pay which puts a day trip around 10 hours of pay, a 2 day at 20, and so on - at a minimum. If I'm on reserve and say being paid 78 hours for the month, whatever hours I flew on my day off are on top of the 78 and I get those days back immediately. So if I took up overtime flying on the first days of the month and had those off I'd get those hours paid above guarantee and the days off back which I could then go out and fly overtime on again and so on and by the time it's said and done the lucky guy who pulls that off made 140 hours to 200 hours on 70-80 hours of flying. Straight salary, so no overtime, boo. But not bidding around 300 permutations of rules, keeps it simple
If the boss gets a divorce, I don't care, I won't even know. Same here
Tax write off? I'm good, I have lots of them... oh MACRS? Yeah, I don't care any more. Nor do I care about A008. And nobody here knows what the heck an 8130 form is. I don't, either.
You know how many people call me on Saturday morning at 9am to run over the numbers on how the jet is doing? ZERO. ZERO, here
Sure I work for the same company but if you moved around airplanes or bases it's like working at different companies. So you get a change of pace.
If the boss' nephew becomes a pilot, I don't care. It doesn't mean I'll have to fly with him as soon as he passes his commercial. Same here, don't fly with anyone that exclusively a pilot
If the guy you're flying with sucks, just know you won't see him after your 2-day, 3-day or 4-day trip ends (international is 6, 9 and occasionally 12 days). Then put him on your no-fly list. True and great, we do get to pick who we hire, tho
I don't have to call the maintenance shop and lie that the check is in the mail when it isn't because the boss doesn't pay up on time. Same here, the mgr if mx dies that.
When you refer to something as a wide-body, you mean Boeing 767 or larger, not Canadair Challengers. Give you that one and I fly Challengers and Globals. 4,000 hours of C-5 cured me of big jet syndrome.
2 weeks of vacation becomes 3 and then 4 and then 5 in a decent amount of time. That's what I get, except for 5 years. Points gets me a free hotel and sometimes airline ticket, too
Did I mention I have days off in advance? On reserve its 12 days wherever your seniority allows you to have them. Flying a line is generally around 14-18 off. I've seen in the 20s before. If you're in need of cash, you can fly more.
Don't get me wrong, majors are the BEST flying career, however, please don't compare the best airline job with the worst charter job. Believe me, in my job, I've seen bad ones that might make regionals look good except for the six-figure paycheck.
As I said, lots of good guys aren't going to make the majors or will stagnant at one. A friend at UPS with 12 years is resigned to permanent F/O, works most holidays, has little control and commutes, he hates it. I loved EAL, loved the people, loved the schedule, but, like so many airline careers, it didn't work out.
Respectfully, GF
08-08-2013, 10:28 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Hates Commuting
Posts: 888
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
Just to rebut some of this at my shop
As a newly retired military guy, I'm taking a huge pay cut to go to the regionals, hoping that the phone call from the major will come "soon." If there's a realistic option to avoid that Three-Card Monty scheme, I would have no hesitation to going corporate....
08-08-2013, 11:46 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
GF, your current gig sounds much like the gigs two of my corporate buddies have... i.e., those few and far between awesome corporate jobs that are so hard to nab. Believe me, if I would've caught one of those jobs right out of my regional, I probably would have stayed too!
08-08-2013, 12:53 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
aa73, Jughead135,
It's definitely an outlier. I get to visit a lot of corporate departments and have been in two before I went to EA in '85. Most of us running the show, including the Chief are ex-mil, so we run it like out ideal squadron would run. We have great support from the head office and it's a big company which has advantages.
The smaller departments flying Citation/Lear sized planes and charter operators are pretty much as FTB says, no argument. The larger companies, international operators flying bigger planes tend, TEND to be more organized, scheduled and run professionally. The "old head" chiefs remember the exodus caused by airline hiring and poor scheduling and try to avoid it. We pretty much know what we're doing, in terms of days, if not details a month ahead. Last month, I knew this month what days I'd be flying and where, but the details, 3 days from leaving are still in flux. This would drive many crazy I mostly like it and roll with the punches. I like being involved in the planning, selecting hotels, the details rather than letting the schedulers run amok.
Yes, corporate jobs can turn on a dime and disappear; the good news is no seniority system, no starting at the bottom. Several of our guys left this year, bought out by more money (lots) or a chance to be a Director of a department.
We have our downsides--holiday trips, occasional Africa trips, sometimes too long a layover, which depends on where. I just had 5 days of in Geneva--great; but 8 off in Dubai is a ticket to the looney bin.
Mind, I would still advise a young guy or gal starting out-- DL would be the best career opportunity
GF
It's definitely an outlier. I get to visit a lot of corporate departments and have been in two before I went to EA in '85. Most of us running the show, including the Chief are ex-mil, so we run it like out ideal squadron would run. We have great support from the head office and it's a big company which has advantages.
The smaller departments flying Citation/Lear sized planes and charter operators are pretty much as FTB says, no argument. The larger companies, international operators flying bigger planes tend, TEND to be more organized, scheduled and run professionally. The "old head" chiefs remember the exodus caused by airline hiring and poor scheduling and try to avoid it. We pretty much know what we're doing, in terms of days, if not details a month ahead. Last month, I knew this month what days I'd be flying and where, but the details, 3 days from leaving are still in flux. This would drive many crazy I mostly like it and roll with the punches. I like being involved in the planning, selecting hotels, the details rather than letting the schedulers run amok.
Yes, corporate jobs can turn on a dime and disappear; the good news is no seniority system, no starting at the bottom. Several of our guys left this year, bought out by more money (lots) or a chance to be a Director of a department.
We have our downsides--holiday trips, occasional Africa trips, sometimes too long a layover, which depends on where. I just had 5 days of in Geneva--great; but 8 off in Dubai is a ticket to the looney bin.
Mind, I would still advise a young guy or gal starting out-- DL would be the best career opportunity
GF
08-08-2013, 01:05 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Hates Commuting
Posts: 888
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
Mind, I would still advise a young guy or gal starting out-- DL would be the best career opportunity
You guys hiring...??
08-08-2013, 02:07 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 423
There's a big difference between individual owner/charter "corporate" than the better real corporate jobs...its like comparing a Delta Regional to Delta. Airline or corporate can both be great, the key is getting to the very top in the industry you choose...everything else is marginal at best.
Most bigger corp gigs have decent schedules, good 401ks or pensions, 3-4 weeks vacation to start, etc...and we certainly don't care if the boss gets divorced.
Gotta compare apples to apples if you're gonna blow your horn.
Most bigger corp gigs have decent schedules, good 401ks or pensions, 3-4 weeks vacation to start, etc...and we certainly don't care if the boss gets divorced.
Gotta compare apples to apples if you're gonna blow your horn.
08-08-2013, 02:30 PM
#30
Working weekends
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by NowCorporate
There's a big difference between individual owner/charter "corporate" than the better real corporate jobs...its like comparing a Delta Regional to Delta. Airline or corporate can both be great, the key is getting to the very top in the industry you choose...everything else is marginal at best.
Most bigger corp gigs have decent schedules, good 401ks or pensions, 3-4 weeks vacation to start, etc...and we certainly don't care if the boss gets divorced.
Gotta compare apples to apples if you're gonna blow your horn.
Most bigger corp gigs have decent schedules, good 401ks or pensions, 3-4 weeks vacation to start, etc...and we certainly don't care if the boss gets divorced.
Gotta compare apples to apples if you're gonna blow your horn.
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