LoneStar32

no, I am not happy that <800,000 seems to be our peak. That is catastrophic actually. If I told you that in May as numbers were going up steadily you would have agreed. Nothing changes that now.

LoneStar32

in both cases you state that local governments are incapable of a qualified response (the local response in Portland along with Seattle has been nothing short of a disaster and an embarrassment) Why should the U.S. Government intervene in one case but not the other? lol, and you call me political?

senecacaptain

the numbers are not what we should be looking at, look at the % of 2019 levels. This will tell you of any trend back to recovery.

pad39a

The fact that we have a lot more C19 cases than we had in March-April, but are not seeing the same precipitous drop-off in pax counts, is about the last shred of hope to which I am clinging for this year.

The 26-27% plateau is what it is, not good. But on the scale of things that are not good, it is far better than 3.9%.

furloughfuntime

Again, these are different issues with different factors. I also never said that the authorities in Portland were incapable of handling the situation, so, no, in both cases I did not state that.

In one case, assistance is asked for and necessary to even begin to solve the problem. In the other case, the intervention made the situation worse, violated the constitution, and was unwelcome. I don't know if you're incapable of grasping the nuance or simply unwilling to hear my point, but, constitutionally, the matter is clearly distinct. Covid19 is a problem that crosses state lines, ie federal, while managing protests is something that occurs within a state or municipality, and the federal government has no right to intervene.

Read my last post again and try to actually comprehend what I'm saying before simply asking the same question over and over. It's like talking to a wall. Here's an article on it if you're actually interested in understanding the issue instead of sniping at me and trying to prove I'm a hypocrite.
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/5...and-just-plain

LoneStar32

So ysay in one case government intervention would make matters worse but in the other they would make them better. What makes you think that? What makes you think that more (because the federal government did intervene IRT Covid, just not as much as you would have liked) federal government intervention in the COVID response wouldn't have made matters worse just like you claim they have in Portland? (they have not btw, you just didn't like that protesters were not as easily able to get away with crimes and violence)

furloughfuntime

Yes, a coordinated federal response would have helped. In some cases, the federal government actively withheld aid from states. Why has every other country that responded from the top-down got this under control? You can't answer that.

And I don't like masked federal agents abducting innocent people without cause. They have constituional rights, and just because you don't like their politics doesn't mean they deserve to be wrongly imprisoned by unidentified thugs. How would you feel if armed federal agents showed up to your house and demanded your guns? Constituional rights are constitutional rights, and wrong is wrong.

Since you're not listening to me, here is Judge Andrew Napolitano of Fox News, someone who knows more about what's lawful and constitutional than either you or me:“What happened in Portland over the weekend, it was not only unlawful and unconstitutional, it’s just plain wrong. Sending armed, untrained police into the streets wearing fatigues without the knowledge or consent of the local police actually caused more violence.”

Napolitano also talked about a complaint by Oregon's attorney general against DHS that included allegations of kidnapping and blindfolding:
“You have a lot of peaceful demonstrators,” Napolitano argued. “The complaint filed by the attorney general of Oregon against the Department of Homeland Security recounts horror stories of peaceful people being kidnapped, held blindfold, handcuffed, and incommunicado for just two hours and then let go. There is no reason to disturb those people. The people they should stop are the ones with the baseball bats.”

“The federal government can’t do what it doesn’t have the authority to do,” he added. “And it shouldn’t do anything without the coordination of the locals.”

AirBear

Thought about posting this in a new thread but I think it fits better here. Basically just confirming what the graph shows with a lot of stats:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ai...eks-2020-07-20

Airline stocks drop as travel demand declines for first time in 13 weeks

As COVID cases rise, TSA data show daily average of travelers snapping 12-week streak of increases

highfarfast

I don't care enough about this argument to go back and look up old news stories but I do remember something along these lines. Something about a bit of a tit for tat/back and forth between Trump and Cuomo for a bit (back when Coumo was having daily news conferences) where everyone (by that I mean media) was all over Trump and using words like "tyrant" and "dictator" for trying to force a federal plan. I do not remember the details of that particular issue though. This IS what I tend to think of when I hear complaints about him not "leading".

Regarding the reopening. There is (or there was, maybe not anymore as far as I know) a federal reopening guideline. It's been a while since I've heard the media reference it but when they did it was always in reference to a state not following the plan... most, not all, of those referenced were opening quicker than the fed guidelines. I have no idea if any state actually followed those guidelines and what their fate was.

I'm not on a side here. My vote wasn't for Trump. But it does seem like no matter what he says or what he does, there's so much hate for him on one side that it wouldn't matter what Trump did or did not do.

contrails12

Yep there’s guidelines. The states where the cases are rising rapidly and hospitals filling up are the ones that opened too fast in opposition to the advice of the CDC and at the behest of the Administration that was anxious to reopen the economy

There are CDC guidelines for reopening schools too. The administration tried to suppress those guidelines and is threatening to cut funding to schools that don’t reopen in spite of those guidelines. In a conventional administration they would emphasize following the guidelines and help by providing resources. It’s bizarre to watch