Nature Article on the Effectiveness of Masks
10-10-2020, 07:29 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 337
Nature Article on the Effectiveness of Masks
https://www.nature.com/articles/d415...ign=pockethits
Nature article on masks. Emerging scientific consensus seems to be that they help, but it is still a question of how much and also that they are not a panacea, in part since it’s hard to separate out the effect of masks from other actions that are often taken at the same time (such as lockdowns, reduced capacity in restaurants/bars, and increased social distancing) in the observational studies.
Figured it might add to the conversation around here since the group positions across relevant posts seem to mirror US national politics and be either “they’re worthless” or “they’re the only thing that can save us”. The article is a “pop sci” summary but all the assertions have links to relevant studies.
Nature article on masks. Emerging scientific consensus seems to be that they help, but it is still a question of how much and also that they are not a panacea, in part since it’s hard to separate out the effect of masks from other actions that are often taken at the same time (such as lockdowns, reduced capacity in restaurants/bars, and increased social distancing) in the observational studies.
Figured it might add to the conversation around here since the group positions across relevant posts seem to mirror US national politics and be either “they’re worthless” or “they’re the only thing that can save us”. The article is a “pop sci” summary but all the assertions have links to relevant studies.
10-10-2020, 07:39 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 166
10-10-2020, 08:05 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by flydrive
Never change APC.
Last edited by BrazilBusDriver; 10-10-2020 at 08:28 PM.
10-10-2020, 08:38 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 516
That’s an interesting article with a lot of editorializing. It says, I think, we need to move beyond a “gold standard”, because there isn’t one yet. Why not?
From the article:
Denmark was one of the last nations to mandate face masks — requiring their use on public transport from 22 August. It has maintained generally good control of the virus through early stay-at-home orders, testing and contact tracing. It is also at the forefront of COVID-19 face-mask research, in the form of two large, randomly controlled trials. A research group in Denmark enrolled some 6,000 participants, asking half to use surgical face masks when going to a workplace. Although the study is completed, Thomas Benfield, a clinical researcher at the University of Copenhagen and one of the principal investigators on the trial, says that his team is not ready to share any results.
I wonder what Galileo felt like when he discovered the Earth was round?
What sets science apart from other ways of thought is it uses empirical data to test ideas and formulate new ones, if needed. When scientists refuse to release the only “gold standard” study on the subject I wouldn’t trust scientists any longer as they are behaving like politicians and religious leaders at that point.
In other news I was reading today the state German epidemiologist said “it’s time to prepare the public to accept an imperfect vaccine”. Those trials must not be going as well as many had hoped.
From the article:
Denmark was one of the last nations to mandate face masks — requiring their use on public transport from 22 August. It has maintained generally good control of the virus through early stay-at-home orders, testing and contact tracing. It is also at the forefront of COVID-19 face-mask research, in the form of two large, randomly controlled trials. A research group in Denmark enrolled some 6,000 participants, asking half to use surgical face masks when going to a workplace. Although the study is completed, Thomas Benfield, a clinical researcher at the University of Copenhagen and one of the principal investigators on the trial, says that his team is not ready to share any results.
I wonder what Galileo felt like when he discovered the Earth was round?
What sets science apart from other ways of thought is it uses empirical data to test ideas and formulate new ones, if needed. When scientists refuse to release the only “gold standard” study on the subject I wouldn’t trust scientists any longer as they are behaving like politicians and religious leaders at that point.
In other news I was reading today the state German epidemiologist said “it’s time to prepare the public to accept an imperfect vaccine”. Those trials must not be going as well as many had hoped.
10-11-2020, 12:08 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
Originally Posted by BrazilBusDriver
Isn't this the same guy that said Hilary Clinton had Parkinson’s in 2016?
Never change APC.
Never change APC.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hi...nsons-disease/
Another whacko paraded out by gullible right wing conspiracy theorists.
10-11-2020, 01:46 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 337
Originally Posted by AntiPeter
That’s an interesting article with a lot of editorializing. It says, I think, we need to move beyond a “gold standard”, because there isn’t one yet. Why not?
From the article:
Denmark was one of the last nations to mandate face masks — requiring their use on public transport from 22 August. It has maintained generally good control of the virus through early stay-at-home orders, testing and contact tracing. It is also at the forefront of COVID-19 face-mask research, in the form of two large, randomly controlled trials. A research group in Denmark enrolled some 6,000 participants, asking half to use surgical face masks when going to a workplace. Although the study is completed, Thomas Benfield, a clinical researcher at the University of Copenhagen and one of the principal investigators on the trial, says that his team is not ready to share any results.
I wonder what Galileo felt like when he discovered the Earth was round?
What sets science apart from other ways of thought is it uses empirical data to test ideas and formulate new ones, if needed. When scientists refuse to release the only “gold standard” study on the subject I wouldn’t trust scientists any longer as they are behaving like politicians and religious leaders at that point.
In other news I was reading today the state German epidemiologist said “it’s time to prepare the public to accept an imperfect vaccine”. Those trials must not be going as well as many had hoped.
From the article:
Denmark was one of the last nations to mandate face masks — requiring their use on public transport from 22 August. It has maintained generally good control of the virus through early stay-at-home orders, testing and contact tracing. It is also at the forefront of COVID-19 face-mask research, in the form of two large, randomly controlled trials. A research group in Denmark enrolled some 6,000 participants, asking half to use surgical face masks when going to a workplace. Although the study is completed, Thomas Benfield, a clinical researcher at the University of Copenhagen and one of the principal investigators on the trial, says that his team is not ready to share any results.
I wonder what Galileo felt like when he discovered the Earth was round?
What sets science apart from other ways of thought is it uses empirical data to test ideas and formulate new ones, if needed. When scientists refuse to release the only “gold standard” study on the subject I wouldn’t trust scientists any longer as they are behaving like politicians and religious leaders at that point.
In other news I was reading today the state German epidemiologist said “it’s time to prepare the public to accept an imperfect vaccine”. Those trials must not be going as well as many had hoped.
Also, FDA has said they’d approve a vaccine that was 50% effective (on par with most flu vaccines year to year), and Moderna and AstraZeneca are aiming for 60% and hoping for more. So it was always gonna be less than perfect in this first round unless someone hit home run on the first pitch swinging...not that it got sold that way in the media or by many in government.
Last edited by BrazilBusDriver; 10-11-2020 at 02:02 AM.
10-11-2020, 03:35 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 516
Originally Posted by BrazilBusDriver
Eh, study complete and results analyzed and written up are presumably two different points in time. Unclear from the article whether they just haven’t made it to the point they’re ready to share data and conclusions or if they’re purposely hiding something. I suppose if you’re biased towards one answer over the other that’ll be your baseline scenario.
Also, FDA has said they’d approve a vaccine that was 50% effective (on par with most flu vaccines year to year), and Moderna and AstraZeneca are aiming for 60% and hoping for more. So it was always gonna be less than perfect in this first round unless someone hit home run on the first pitch swinging...not that it got sold that way in the media or by many in government.
Also, FDA has said they’d approve a vaccine that was 50% effective (on par with most flu vaccines year to year), and Moderna and AstraZeneca are aiming for 60% and hoping for more. So it was always gonna be less than perfect in this first round unless someone hit home run on the first pitch swinging...not that it got sold that way in the media or by many in government.
I was out walking some nature trails yesterday and I'm still very surprised how many people (usually healthy women, it would seem) wear masks outside. Seeing that they are the lowest risk group from COVID-19, and their risk is almost nil, especially outside, I wonder how long it will take for a more rational, scientific and objective response from those that have become hypochondriacs.
10-11-2020, 03:53 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Position: NYC 7ERA
Posts: 1,966
I go on a 15-25 mile loop on my mountain bike daily (hurrah UNAmployment).
I get the "where is your mask" stare, from Karens who are 3 miles into the woods, the first person I've passed in 8 miles, who is wearing theirs improperly as they yap into their cellphone on speaker held out in front of their face.
Yeah. Not wearing one on a bike ride. I can only imagine trying to breathe through that thing once it's wet with sweat. No thank you.
I get the "where is your mask" stare, from Karens who are 3 miles into the woods, the first person I've passed in 8 miles, who is wearing theirs improperly as they yap into their cellphone on speaker held out in front of their face.
Yeah. Not wearing one on a bike ride. I can only imagine trying to breathe through that thing once it's wet with sweat. No thank you.
10-11-2020, 05:09 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 337
Yeah that’s a great point about the benefit of masks outdoors, exercising, with relatively brief contact. I recall hearing Cuomo or one of his lieutenants saying they probably weren’t necessary due to the brevity of the contact and the fact one was outdoors back in April or May (not from NY, but had a lot of free time while unemployed). Assumed that if even the strictest folks said “don’t worry about it”, it bordered on the hysterical. So I’ve been rolling with that advice since the spring, without ill effect other than the occasional Karen stare.
10-11-2020, 05:36 AM
#10
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,702
Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to Covid Theater!
Restaurants in the era of Covid:
1. Arrive at restaurant and fish your three-month-old, single-use surgical mask out of the car's filthy cupholder (still slightly sticky from this morning's 84oz diet Pepsi).
2. Strap up with three-month old single-use surgical mask.
*MAGICAL ANTI-GERM BARRIER ENGAGE!!!*
3. Proceed into restaurant, opening door with same handle grabbed by 200 people so far today.
4. Hostess has immediate seating for your woke party-of-three. Walk past entire restaurant of unmasked people. It's OK, they're sitting.
5. Sit down.
*SEATED ANTI-GERM FORCEFIELD ENGAGE!!!*
6. Safely within your anti-germ forcefield, remove mask. Browse menu while making relaxed inhales of the same recirculated AC air previously inside the lungs of the 200 people that also grabbed the door handle.
7. Waitress drops off drinks bare handed.
8. Grab drink with your bare hand. Sip leisurely, secure in knowing you're within your anti-germ forcefield of seatedness.
9. Too many drinks. Need to pee. Don the magical anti-germ barrier mask as you leave your anti-germ forcefield of seatedness.
10. Walk past 40 unmasked restaurant patrons. Open bathroom with same door knob grabbed by 100 other people so far today.
11. Return to table past same 40 unmasked restaurant patrons.
12. Remove mask. Once again safe in your anti-germ forcefield of seatedness. Waitress takes your sweaty drink glass with her bare hand, refills, hands back to you. You accept with your bare hand. Grab some bread and eat it. Same hand. Yum Yum.
13. Meal complete. Mask on. Walk past 40 unmasked patrons. Make full body contact with at least 4 people waiting at the hostess stand as you squeeze your way back to the door - no matter, they're all also wearing their magical anti-germ barriers.
14. Grab exit handle, which you are now the 220th person of the day to touch. Eating out successful.
15. Breathe a sigh of relief knowing that even after leaving the protection of your home and venturing out into the scary world of the public, you are essentially sterile thanks to your state approved methods of magical germ mitigation.
Shamelessly stolen from another source but when reality is funnier than anything on SNL, there is a problem. Youtube search also for "Nassau County Tennis Balls."
Restaurants in the era of Covid:
1. Arrive at restaurant and fish your three-month-old, single-use surgical mask out of the car's filthy cupholder (still slightly sticky from this morning's 84oz diet Pepsi).
2. Strap up with three-month old single-use surgical mask.
*MAGICAL ANTI-GERM BARRIER ENGAGE!!!*
3. Proceed into restaurant, opening door with same handle grabbed by 200 people so far today.
4. Hostess has immediate seating for your woke party-of-three. Walk past entire restaurant of unmasked people. It's OK, they're sitting.
5. Sit down.
*SEATED ANTI-GERM FORCEFIELD ENGAGE!!!*
6. Safely within your anti-germ forcefield, remove mask. Browse menu while making relaxed inhales of the same recirculated AC air previously inside the lungs of the 200 people that also grabbed the door handle.
7. Waitress drops off drinks bare handed.
8. Grab drink with your bare hand. Sip leisurely, secure in knowing you're within your anti-germ forcefield of seatedness.
9. Too many drinks. Need to pee. Don the magical anti-germ barrier mask as you leave your anti-germ forcefield of seatedness.
10. Walk past 40 unmasked restaurant patrons. Open bathroom with same door knob grabbed by 100 other people so far today.
11. Return to table past same 40 unmasked restaurant patrons.
12. Remove mask. Once again safe in your anti-germ forcefield of seatedness. Waitress takes your sweaty drink glass with her bare hand, refills, hands back to you. You accept with your bare hand. Grab some bread and eat it. Same hand. Yum Yum.
13. Meal complete. Mask on. Walk past 40 unmasked patrons. Make full body contact with at least 4 people waiting at the hostess stand as you squeeze your way back to the door - no matter, they're all also wearing their magical anti-germ barriers.
14. Grab exit handle, which you are now the 220th person of the day to touch. Eating out successful.
15. Breathe a sigh of relief knowing that even after leaving the protection of your home and venturing out into the scary world of the public, you are essentially sterile thanks to your state approved methods of magical germ mitigation.
Shamelessly stolen from another source but when reality is funnier than anything on SNL, there is a problem. Youtube search also for "Nassau County Tennis Balls."
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
