BoilerUP

Has Rucker been grounded yet, though?

Any embolisms in vaccinated pilots at Delta?

ItnStln

I saw that on Facebook and read it. It's a good read for sure!

Excargodog

And individual variance ISN’T quite high with the vaccines? If not, why do some require boosters and others not? Some decisions - like the age of consent or when you can get a driver’s license - are inherently arbitrary since age doesn’t really correlate with wisdom. But courts sort of like to see some consistency…

And precedent?

You seriously think any state could arbitrarily involuntarily sterilize people today like California did after Buck vs Bell in 1927? For reasons as specious as being epileptic?

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...sterilizations

https://www.capradio.org/articles/20...pay-survivors/

https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/...ontext=lawineq

Even though Buck vs Bell has never been overruled? What do you do when stare decis simply means you are being consistently wrong?

John Carr

You’re a smart guy and I don’t mean to nitpick.

But can we really use the term “immunization” when referring the COVID vaccine?

Maybe it’s splitting hairs, but I really don’t see still being able to contract something being immune from something.

Still being able to contract it yet with lesser symptoms is not the same as flat out NOT being able to contract it whether through true natural immunity or a pharmaceutical method.

rickair7777

There's no requirement that a vaccine be 100% effective.

But they've been pretty close to 100% effective at keeping people alive, so there's that.

John Carr

Well, that’s all a given.

Still doesn’t deal with what “immunization” truly means…

rickair7777

Vaccine performance been quantified, in accordance with accepted processes which bureaucrats can hang their hats on.

I'm not saying natural immunity isn't a thing, I'm saying there's not an established bureaucratic path to recognize it without some specific testing. Somebody has to make a decision to go there, and that somebody is not me.

It could be done, it's common enough with chickenpox, but obviously we have a lot of experience with that bug...

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac...c-immunity.htm




But we're not talking about forced sterilization here, that's a red herring. If the lawyers use THAT in their argument they'd probably get tossed out on the sidewalk.

Don't waste that on me, save it for the SCOTUS hearing. I'm not telling you what's right or wrong, I'm just telling you what's probably going to happen legally.

Yes, yes given all of the lawsuits filed some plaintiff somewhere will find some fringe circuit judge to give them a favorable interim ruling, which will of course be appealed.

It will go to SCOTUS, and they will accept the case (or one of them anyway) given the gravity and import of the situation. So the real question is do you think the conservatives on the big bench will throw this one out? Conventional wisdom (from reputable and fairly conservative sources) is that Biden's mandate will survive challenges intact or mostly intact. Nothing we say here will affect that. Personally I think the safety valve is that there is NO vaccine mandate whatsoever, so you can't litigate something that doesn't exist. Lets unwad our panties and recall that you can simply get tested instead of vaccinated... nobody even has to lose their job (unless you're a truly committed anti-vaxxer who flies widebodies to foriegn countries who enact an actual *mandate*).

So really the only arguments left are:

1) Can private entities fire people who don't get vaccinated... lot's of precedent for yes on that. Vaccine performance numbers don't matter much (people can be required to get the flu shot, which can have much lower efficacy than the covid vaccines). Vaccine safety numbers could actually matter, but the vaccines are certified and demonstrated to be statistically quit safe. You can trot out the VAERS database to try to fool people on APC but that won't work in court

2) Is it fair for the government to mandate covid tests for anti-vaxxers

Still be interesting to watch.

rickair7777

Site has an image of a comic book hero and a banner stating "Coming Soon". You might have been spoofed.

Excargodog

Except chickenpox DOESN’T inevitably have lifelong immunity - it simply goes dormant in the host. Eventually when immunity wanes - naturally acquired or from immunization - it does recur as shingles, which CAN be transmitted to chickenpox susceptible. And shingles occurs in almost one-third of people over the course of their lifetime, sometimes multiple recurrences.

https://www.cdc.gov/shingles/surveillance.html

and although zostavax is 50% efficacious and two shots of shingrix are 90% efficacious, nobody mandates that anyone get them and immunization rates even in the elderly are only about 35% in the Anglo population, much less in Hispanics and Blacks. Yet nobody seems to be going in high dudgeon about it, even though it can be a serious disease.



And of course for those who develop varicella pneumonia, the case fatality figures rival those of smallpox - approaching 10-30%. .

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2732098/

Drum

Its legit filing Rick.

Google Patrick Byrne. That's his site

Google AFLDS TRO v DOD and the jab. The filing and all supporting exhibits are there including the one I linked to. It was easier than telling you to go dig thru all the stuff yourself.

Next time I won't bother saving you or anyone else the time.