Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Hangar Talk > COVID19
Vaccine Mandate Exemption >

Vaccine Mandate Exemption

Search

Notices
COVID19 Pandemic Information and Reports

Vaccine Mandate Exemption

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 10-15-2021 | 06:44 AM
  #131  
skywatch's Avatar
Gets Weekdays Off
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
From: Economy Minus
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
They didn't exempt themselves, PLEASE try to get basic government facts right. The constitution exempted them.
serious question - if the legislative branch of the Federal government cannot be mandated, how is it that all government contractors (airlines) can?
Reply
Old 10-15-2021 | 10:58 AM
  #132  
galaxy flyer's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,244
Likes: 2
From: Baja Vermont
Default

Originally Posted by skywatch
serious question - if the legislative branch of the Federal government cannot be mandated, how is it that all government contractors (airlines) can?
Contracts are signed by the EXECUTIVE branch, they are instruments between the Federal agency purchasing the goods/services and the vendor, hence subject to the EO.

Staff members of Congress fall under Article I, not Article II. Gotta love people citing all kinds of opinions and exhibit continued ignorance of the basics of the USG.
Reply
Old 10-15-2021 | 11:22 AM
  #133  
rickair7777's Avatar
Prime Minister/Moderator
Veteran: Navy
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,127
Likes: 796
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Default

Originally Posted by skywatch
serious question - if the legislative branch of the Federal government cannot be mandated, how is it that all government contractors (airlines) can?
It's a side effect of how the government was structured.

The legislative, judicial, and executive branches are intentionally separate for balance of power reasons.

The need for separation of power obviously applies to their core government functions. Now it might not be unreasonable to have the executive (being the "operations department" or J3 in mil parlance) take care of routine admin and logistics for the other two branches, simply for efficiency.

But that's not the way it was implemented... each of the three branches is almost totally self-contained in the sense that they don't rely on each other for care and feeding. For efficiency they are all supported by the GSA, but even that is a separate entity not falling under any of the three branches (it's funding and leadership appointments require both congress and the WH to concur).

The employer vaccine mandate is implemented as an executive order to OSHA, directing them to use their health and safety authority to mandate vaccinations. OSHA works for the executive, and has specific regulatory authorities. While it has authority over most workplaces, there are a few exceptions. For example the executive lets the DoD do their own osha stuff for obvious reasons. Same with FAA and airplanes. Since OSHA works for the executive it's authority inherently does not apply at all to the other two branches.

The federal mandate is just the customer defining the terms of the business arrangement, since the executive contracts for airline service (and most or all majors have those contracts). Apparently the terms of those contracts don't specifically exclude vaccine mandates, and the terms probably do have some sort of force majeure for health, safety, etc.

Bottom line, the executive cannot tell the other two branches how to run their organizations. The legislative and judicial could presumably implement their own internal vaccine mandates.

Also the ENTIRE federal government, all branches, could be subject to a vaccine mandate if congress passed a bill to that effect, POTUS signed it into law, and the courts didn't uphold any objections. But the executive can't do it alone.
Reply
Old 10-15-2021 | 11:44 AM
  #134  
skywatch's Avatar
Gets Weekdays Off
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
From: Economy Minus
Default

[QUOTE=galaxy flyer;3309837]Contracts are signed by the EXECUTIVE branch, they are instruments between the Federal agency purchasing the goods/services and the vendor, hence subject to the EO.

Staff members of Congress fall under Article I, not Article II. Gotta love people citing all kinds of opinions and exhibit continued ignorance of the basics of the USG.[/QUOTE

Despite the childish condescending add on, thanks for answering the question. I’ll try harder.
Reply
Old 10-15-2021 | 11:45 AM
  #135  
skywatch's Avatar
Gets Weekdays Off
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
From: Economy Minus
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
It's a side effect of how the government was structured.

The legislative, judicial, and executive branches are intentionally separate for balance of power reasons.

The need for separation of power obviously applies to their core government functions. Now it might not be unreasonable to have the executive (being the "operations department" or J3 in mil parlance) take care of routine admin and logistics for the other two branches, simply for efficiency.

But that's not the way it was implemented... each of the three branches is almost totally self-contained in the sense that they don't rely on each other for care and feeding. For efficiency they are all supported by the GSA, but even that is a separate entity not falling under any of the three branches (it's funding and leadership appointments require both congress and the WH to concur).

The employer vaccine mandate is implemented as an executive order to OSHA, directing them to use their health and safety authority to mandate vaccinations. OSHA works for the executive, and has specific regulatory authorities. While it has authority over most workplaces, there are a few exceptions. For example the executive lets the DoD do their own osha stuff for obvious reasons. Same with FAA and airplanes. Since OSHA works for the executive it's authority inherently does not apply at all to the other two branches.

The federal mandate is just the customer defining the terms of the business arrangement, since the executive contracts for airline service (and most or all majors have those contracts). Apparently the terms of those contracts don't specifically exclude vaccine mandates, and the terms probably do have some sort of force majeure for health, safety, etc.

Bottom line, the executive cannot tell the other two branches how to run their organizations. The legislative and judicial could presumably implement their own internal vaccine mandates.

Also the ENTIRE federal government, all branches, could be subject to a vaccine mandate if congress passed a bill to that effect, POTUS signed it into law, and the courts didn't uphold any objections. But the executive can't do it alone.
Thanks. That is clearer.
Reply
Old 10-15-2021 | 12:47 PM
  #136  
galaxy flyer's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,244
Likes: 2
From: Baja Vermont
Default

[QUOTE=skywatch;3309851]
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
Contracts are signed by the EXECUTIVE branch, they are instruments between the Federal agency purchasing the goods/services and the vendor, hence subject to the EO.

Staff members of Congress fall under Article I, not Article II. Gotta love people citing all kinds of opinions and exhibit continued ignorance of the basics of the USG.[/QUOTE

Despite the childish condescending add on, thanks for answering the question. I’ll try harder.
Several posters here offered opinions that were innocent of how the government is structured, but their opinion was tilted in a certain political direction. I don’t object, and likely support that tilt, but facts are facts. If one doesn’t know, perhaps humility requires prior research or, better yet, education needs improvement on being citizen instead of political pawn.
Reply
Old 10-15-2021 | 01:28 PM
  #137  
dustrpilot's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: AT802
Default

They are still US citizens, walking amongst us.
If it’s required for us it should be for them too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply
Old 10-15-2021 | 02:41 PM
  #138  
av8or's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 929
Likes: 2
From: This side of the dirt.
Default

Originally Posted by Halon1211
It’s pretty sad and pathetic all the people that like to mock having freedom

I bet if you lived in a country like where I’m from you wouldn’t be saying crap like that. Because you would know that’s no joke
I can’t blame em. They’ve been taught that words are violence, private property is tyranny…. and there are an infinite number of genders. It stands to reason that they think freedom “just happens” and that it doesn’t have to be vigilantly protected.
Reply
Old 10-15-2021 | 03:12 PM
  #139  
HIFLYR's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,506
Likes: 0
From: 777 Captain in Training
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777
They didn't exempt themselves, PLEASE try to get basic government facts right. The constitution exempted them.
Thier aids etc are not correct! Regardless They should have all stepped up for the shot they want to mandate.
Reply
Old 10-15-2021 | 03:20 PM
  #140  
galaxy flyer's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,244
Likes: 2
From: Baja Vermont
Default

Originally Posted by dustrpilot
They are still US citizens, walking amongst us.
If it’s required for us it should be for them too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, amend the Constitution to eliminate separation of powers. I dint think you’d want that. Should they be vaccinated? Yes. Should it be mandated? No.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Excargodog
COVID19
614
11-15-2021 08:26 AM
Skycap876
Spirit
180
09-26-2021 09:05 PM
rickair7777
COVID19
6
08-12-2021 12:54 PM
docav8tor
COVID19
49
12-04-2020 09:56 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices