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Military boosters coming?
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First...there were the "Unvaccinated".
Now...there are the "Unboosted". What a glorious time to be alive. |
Why would anybody join the mil if they're particular about vaccines?
History has clearly shown the mil will mandate vaccines, even controversial ones. Day one at bootcamp/OCS/etc will consist of about 20 shots. |
Delicious...they can't even get all the active/reserve/guard to get the first round and now they're going to try and get boosters. Even with the high rate of vax at the camp I work at we have random outbreaks. And then the cure is to restrict people to 4 to a table in the dfac and designate a shower/latrine trailer for the PLAGUE carriers.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3334121)
Why would anybody join the mil if they're particular about vaccines?
History has clearly shown the mil will mandate vaccines, even controversial ones. Day one at bootcamp/OCS/etc will consist of about 20 shots. Then came anthrax. Thanks to that, I almost died and have a lifetime SI that will likely cut my career short and took a solid decade off my life expectancy. I was waiver from any further Anthrax shots or boosters. I started having bad reactions to flu shots, bad enough that I was hospitalized. For the remaining 18 years I was in, I was waived from Flu, Anthrax and any "new" vaccine and it was a non issue. Out comes the COVID-19 vaccine. My flight surgeon, my cardiologist and my oncologist all said "you do not get this until we have years of data" Then the myocarditis being the most common adverse side effect came out. My cardiologist went "you never get this vaccine. Period" Mind you these are all Navy doctors. When COVID-19 vaccine became "Mandatory" they all wrote letters to my waiver package. Now mind you, any vaccine prior to this one only required one doc to say no, and that was the end of it. No. Package with three Navy docs and two civilian docs goes up. Overruled by a non MD Captain. I told them in no uncertain terms I was not getting the shot contrary to medical advice and I would gladly see them at the Court Martial. Mind you, the deadline was 3 days before my Mandatory Retirement date. 28 DEC vs 01JAN. My retirement date was moved to 1 DEC after I rolled into the NOSC Command Suite with lawyers in tow when I was summoned to a "sign this page 13 and you can't write an under duress statement" and brought JAG. 24 years. Zero discipline items on my record ever. Last day in the Navy had lawyers involved because Covid went political and the military political officers (O6 and above) went with looking good for their bosses over a very real chance the vaccine would kill or disable me due to heart damage from a previous "new but safe" vaccine. Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk |
Lo and behold, right after this post, this shows up in the mail.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5d2fdd7105.jpg Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk |
Lucky. I can't wait to quit again.
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My reseve center says they've processed more "early" (as in not high year tenure or another statutory limit, but over 20 years) retirements in the last 2 months than in the previous three years.
I only know the data for my squadron but our retention for the under 10 years total service group is horrible. Not just the vaccine but the over the top "rom" requrements, covid prison on deployments etc. Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3334222)
My reseve center says they've processed more "early" (as in not high year tenure or another statutory limit, but over 20 years) retirements in the last 2 months than in the previous three years.
I only know the data for my squadron but our retention for the under 10 years total service group is horrible. Not just the vaccine but the over the top "rom" requrements, covid prison on deployments etc. Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk A couple of years ago, I would have loved to be a reserve SAU skipper. Now, you couldn't pay me enough to do that job. |
I was a squadron XO that didn't make CDR so I've been the "I drink coffee and know things" LCDR without a real job for a couple years.
But I was also the only guy fully qualified for everything we do deployed on the reserve side. Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3334259)
I was a squadron XO that didn't make CDR so I've been the "I drink coffee and know things" LCDR without a real job for a couple years.
But I was also the only guy fully qualified for everything we do deployed on the reserve side. The USNR holds RC hardware operators in VERY, VERY high regard... that will very much grease your career skids. HOWEVER you can't stay there forever, unless on command track. Even then, you can't blow off all the other stuff. You also MUST do PMEs and also whatever your designator career profile has in the way of key milestones (including AQDs) ... those are laid out in the ppt that is shown to every board, and every officer should look at that ppt annually (it's on the BUPERS RC promotion pages). I've actually helped hardware guys earn specific quals "on the side" while assigned to a squadron to ensure promotion and apply assignment. |
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3334186)
Because at the time I joined, I had already had most of them, they had long track records and weren't political weapons with EUAs.
Then came anthrax. Thanks to that, I almost died and have a lifetime SI that will likely cut my career short and took a solid decade off my life expectancy. I was waiver from any further Anthrax shots or boosters. I started having bad reactions to flu shots, bad enough that I was hospitalized. For the remaining 18 years I was in, I was waived from Flu, Anthrax and any "new" vaccine and it was a non issue. Out comes the COVID-19 vaccine. My flight surgeon, my cardiologist and my oncologist all said "you do not get this until we have years of data" Then the myocarditis being the most common adverse side effect came out. My cardiologist went "you never get this vaccine. Period" Mind you these are all Navy doctors. When COVID-19 vaccine became "Mandatory" they all wrote letters to my waiver package. Now mind you, any vaccine prior to this one only required one doc to say no, and that was the end of it. No. Package with three Navy docs and two civilian docs goes up. Overruled by a non MD Captain. I told them in no uncertain terms I was not getting the shot contrary to medical advice and I would gladly see them at the Court Martial. Mind you, the deadline was 3 days before my Mandatory Retirement date. 28 DEC vs 01JAN. My retirement date was moved to 1 DEC after I rolled into the NOSC Command Suite with lawyers in tow when I was summoned to a "sign this page 13 and you can't write an under duress statement" and brought JAG. 24 years. Zero discipline items on my record ever. Last day in the Navy had lawyers involved because Covid went political and the military political officers (O6 and above) went with looking good for their bosses over a very real chance the vaccine would kill or disable me due to heart damage from a previous "new but safe" vaccine. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3334319)
You know this, but for the edification of others...
The USNR holds RC hardware operators in VERY, VERY high regard... that will very much grease your career skids. HOWEVER you can't stay there forever, unless on command track. Even then, you can't blow off all the other stuff. You also MUST do PMEs and also whatever your designator career profile has in the way of key milestones (including AQDs) ... those are laid out in the ppt that is shown to every board, and every officer should look at that ppt annually (it's on the BUPERS RC promotion pages). I've actually helped hardware guys earn specific quals "on the side" while assigned to a squadron to ensure promotion and apply assignment. No ADT, AT has to get run on a waiver to a 2 star I think. And in the case of command support.. Once it hit the NOSC, support stopped and I basically got the "get your shot, what are you afraid of" speech. I was told at one point that me not getting vaccinated as an officer set a "bad example". I had it out with the NOSC command suite at that point and gave zero ****s anymore. They tried to hardsell me on a pg13 that I couldn't make a statement that I was signing under duress, then threatened Art 15 procedings, to which I said I would decline that and demand CM. They care about two things. Making checkblocks green and their careers. There are very few leaders left at the O-6 and above in the non flying Navy Reserve. |
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3334347)
In my case, I got hurt on an Afghan deployment, and got sucked into the MRR vortex, which basically sticks you at your current command and screws you out of any ability to do something other than be "Spare O-4 #3"
No ADT, AT has to get run on a waiver to a 2 star I think. And in the case of command support.. Once it hit the NOSC, support stopped and I basically got the "get your shot, what are you afraid of" speech. I was told at one point that me not getting vaccinated as an officer set a "bad example". I had it out with the NOSC command suite at that point and gave zero ****s anymore. They tried to hardsell me on a pg13 that I couldn't make a statement that I was signing under duress, then threatened Art 15 procedings, to which I said I would decline that and demand CM. They care about two things. Making checkblocks green and their careers. There are very few leaders left at the O-6 and above in the non flying Navy Reserve. NOSC/FTS are just another obstacle in the life of a SELRES... you need to work around them. They're basically a self-licking ice cream cone. Use what service they can provide, but don't let them get in your way. BTDT. |
I was TACRON so we kind of don't have any SELRES over us. There are SELRES in the ESG/SURFLANT worlds but we never went up/through them for anything.
The Navy didn't (and still doesn't) really know what to do with TACRON, even less so reserve side. |
Executive Officer canned for not getting the jab. "Commander Lucian Kins, the USS Winston S. Churchill's second-in-command, reportedly applied for a religious exemption which was refused by the Navy ..."
Probably more to the story than this short article. A5S https://www.zerohedge.com/political/navy-destroyer-2-officer-fired-over-refusal-get-covid-19-vax-or-tested |
Originally Posted by All 5 Stages
(Post 3334403)
Executive Officer canned for not getting the jab. "Commander Lucian Kins, the USS Winston S. Churchill's second-in-command, reportedly applied for a religious exemption which was refused by the Navy ..."
Probably more to the story than this short article. A5S https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...-vax-or-tested |
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3334218)
Lo and behold, right after this post, this shows up in the mail.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5d2fdd7105.jpg Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk |
If I was still in today, I’d only be a couple of years shy of 20 right now. I can’t begin to imagine how I would have reacted to all of this nonsense while still bound by the UCMJ. Turns out getting RIFed all those years ago was a blessing.
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Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3334218)
Lo and behold, right after this post, this shows up in the mail.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5d2fdd7105.jpg Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk signed -a fellow UNAcorn |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3334423)
Refused testing as well??? Something fishy here. Maybe another guy going out in a blaze of political glory.
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Originally Posted by bitwiser
(Post 3334698)
Are you aware that the tests are all EUA as well? I find it ironic that you would accuse the member of playing political games, given the background behind all of this.
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Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3334218)
Lo and behold, right after this post, this shows up in the mail.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5d2fdd7105.jpg Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk Told you that you'd come out on top The covidiots vaxmasknatzis are all cowards at their core. Fight them at every turn like you did - well done and again congrats on your retirement |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3334321)
You're a special case, and yes it sounds like BS. Did you get any reserve flag involvement in your situation? Your chain should have done that.
The experimental anthrax jab nuked me too. On an SI for permanent side effect gift it gave me. |
Originally Posted by Drum
(Post 3334907)
He's not.
The experimental anthrax jab nuked me too. On an SI for permanent side effect gift it gave me. |
50,000 Military won't meet deadline
Probably behind a paywall:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...date-military/ Counting Guard/Reserve there are 50,000 who won't meet the deadline. Leadership thinks as waivers are denied many will fall in line and get the shots. Also, a number not getting the shot are getting out of the service soon anyway. Army-14,000 Air Force/Navy/Marines - 25,000 Air Guard/USAF Reserve -10,700 A handful of medical waivers have been granted, but no religious ones. Navy and Air Force say members have 5 days to get the 1st shot after waiver denial. Navy says they will move aggressively to discharge those refusing to follow orders. Army is taking a softer approach, saying they will give counseling before taking punitive action. |
And in my case the waiver was denied by a non MD.
It's all theater. 700 waivers at my reserve center. 0 approved. Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk |
Nothing new under the sun…
GAO: Military anthrax shots caused many reactions, prompted some pilots to quitFiled Under:Anthrax By: Robert Roos | Nov 08, 2002Nov 8, 2002 (CIDRAP News) – The Pentagon's mandatory anthrax shots caused adverse reactions in most recipients and helped prompt many Air Force Reserve and Air National Guard members to transfer to other units or leave the military between 1998 and 2000, according to a survey by Congress's General Accounting Office (GAO). The survey indicated that 85% of troops who received an anthrax shot had an adverse reaction, a rate far higher than the 30% claimed by the manufacturer in 2000, when the survey was conducted. Sixteen percent of the survey respondents had either left the military or changed their status, at least in part because of the vaccination program. The program "appears to have adversely affected the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve in terms of retaining needed experienced personnel," states the report, which was released in late October. The GAO recommended that the Department of Defense (DoD) set up an active surveillance program for vaccine reactions. DoD launched a program in 1998 to inoculate all troops against anthrax. The program was cut back to a few select units in 2000 because of a vaccine shortage due to the manufacturer's difficulty in gaining Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval for its operation after a plant renovation. In January 2002 the FDA finally approved the new production system. Last May, DoD announced it would step up the vaccination program again, but the shots would be required only for personnel deployed longer than 15 days in high-risk areas. Although the survey was conducted in 2000, before the terrorist and anthrax attacks of September and October 2001 and before the FDA approval of the manufacturing changes, the GAO believes the findings "are still valid and useful" as a measure of the vaccination program's performance, the report says. The survey was directed at a random sample of 1,253 guard and reserve personnel, chosen to represent all pilots and aircrew members, including vaccinated and unvaccinated personnel. The survey drew a 67% response rate; the percentage findings are said to be accurate within plus or minus 5 points. The survey showed that between September 1998 and September 2000, "about 16 percent of the pilots and aircrew members of the guard and reserve had (1) transferred to another unit (primarily to nonflying positions to avoid or delay receiving the anthrax shots), (2) moved to inactive status, or (3) left the military," the report says. "Additionally, an estimated one in five (18 percent) of those still participating in or assigned to a unit in 2000—that is those who had not already changed their status—indicated their willingness to leave in the near future. Both groups, those who had already left and those indicating their intention to leave, ranked AVIP [Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program] as a key factor in their decision to leave or change their participation." From the survey results, the GAO estimated that 37% of aircrew personnel had received at least one anthrax shot (of the six-dose regimen) by September 2000. Eighty-five percent of the vaccinees reported an adverse reaction, and each shot triggered an average of four or more reactions. Almost a fifth of the reactions were classified as systemic, and a fifth of these lasted more than a week. At the time of the survey, the vaccine product insert listed the rate of adverse reactions at about 30% and the rate of systemic reactions at 0.2%, the report says. "Such marked variances from the product insert data suggest the possibility of a change in the composition of the vaccine from the vaccine originally approved in 1970," the report says. It does not discuss whether newer vaccine from the renovated plant run by BioPort Corp. in Lansing, Mich., might be safer than vaccine made before the renovation. The report notes that two short-term military studies of the vaccine's side effects, one in Korea and one in Hawaii, yielded results similar to the GAO's findings and showed that reactions were much more common in women than in men. Since 2000, the product insert has been revised to include the findings from these and other recent studies, the report says. In other findings, the survey suggested that only about 40% of the aircrew personnel were satisfied with the information DoD provided about the vaccination program. The GAO estimated that 77% of the members would not have taken the vaccine if they had had a choice. The report recommends that the Pentagon set up a program to actively monitor reactions to the vaccine. The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is available to vaccinees, but it is a "passive" system relying on voluntary reporting. Many service members who had vaccine reactions did not report them to VAERS or their DoD healthcare providers, the report says. DoD, when invited to comment on the draft GAO report, did not agree with the recommendation to establish an active surveillance program. The department cited a statement by the Institute of Medicine, in its March 2002 report on the vaccine, that special monitoring programs do not seem necessary despite the concerns of military personnel. But the GAO replied, in the report, that the IOM actually recommended that DoD use VAERS data to generate hypotheses for further study and also do "ad hoc unit-based population monitoring of reactions to all vaccines." |
Originally Posted by AirBear
(Post 3334947)
Probably behind a paywall:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...date-military/ Counting Guard/Reserve there are 50,000 who won't meet the deadline. Leadership thinks as waivers are denied many will fall in line and get the shots. Also, a number not getting the shot are getting out of the service soon anyway. Army-14,000 Air Force/Navy/Marines - 25,000 Air Guard/USAF Reserve -10,700 A handful of medical waivers have been granted, but no religious ones. Navy and Air Force say members have 5 days to get the 1st shot after waiver denial. Navy says they will move aggressively to discharge those refusing to follow orders. Army is taking a softer approach, saying they will give counseling before taking punitive action. |
Originally Posted by Beech Dude
(Post 3335205)
Good for folks that can use this as an early out (lemons to lemonade approach) and get a line number at a place of their choosing and ride this wave.
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Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
(Post 3335282)
Yeah, but who’s left that doesn’t require vaccination for new hires?
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Originally Posted by Beech Dude
(Post 3335284)
Sorry, I should've clarified. I meant IRT the title, aka boosters. I know the above stats were for the vaccine, but I was thinking, and poorly stated that if they go the same route with boosters folks could get out, but may still have the -19 card to get hired.
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I saw a short blurb today on the Washington Post that 27 Air Force members were booted for no jab. No mention of what type of discharge they got.
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Originally Posted by AirBear
(Post 3335412)
I saw a short blurb today on the Washington Post that 27 Air Force members were booted for no jab. No mention of what type of discharge they got.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3335431)
They were junior, first term members and thus not entitled to all of to all of the due process which members with more longevity get. They'll have to jump through more hoops to evict the senior folks. And they'd better, now that they've done it to the junior members.
I have actually seen Politicians do stupider things. |
I'm not going back if they pull that. That just means the next time the congressional majority changes, it will be "vax or prison"
Nope. Heavy handed policy gutted my reserve unit. Active side CO called me in a near panic. They were counting on me and another novaxer to get underway next month. We both retired 1 DEC. They have no qualified guys on the active side that aren't already deployed. Sounds a lot like FUBIJAR. Except the R standing for reservist now means retiree. Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3335435)
Well, the recently passed NDAA apparently has a provision in it requiring COVID immunization refusal related discharges to be characterized as either general under honorable conditions or honorable. My actual worst case scenario would be for the services to go through all the angst this is bound to cause and then have a change of Congressional majority lead to a must-pass bill being amended to require restoration of COVID discharged personnel with records purged of administrative or court martial action and retirement and longevity credit restored for the time they were involuntarily beached.
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Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3335439)
I'm not going back if they pull that. That just means the next time the congressional majority changes, it will be "vax or prison"
Nope. Heavy handed policy gutted my reserve unit. Active side CO called me in a near panic. They were counting on me and another novaxer to get underway next month. We both retired 1 DEC. They have no qualified guys on the active side that aren't already deployed. Sounds a lot like FUBIJAR. Except the R standing for reservist now means retiree. I would have run it up the chain had I been anywhere near that situation, CNRFC actual is a SELRES right now so hopefully that would provide a check and balance on the FTS. Nothing the FTS does would surprise me though, they view us as Ho's and themselves as pimps. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3335431)
They were junior, first term members and thus not entitled to all of to all of the due process which members with more longevity get. They'll have to jump through more hoops to evict the senior folks. And they'd better, now that they've done it to the junior members.
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Originally Posted by AirBear
(Post 3335616)
The 27 received Honorable and General Discharges under honorable conditions. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the senior folks. And what about military pilots who still have an active duty obligation for pilot training? Could they refuse the shot, get booted and then get an early start on their airline career?
While that could happen, it probably won’t and shouldn’t without having to pay back their obligation or something similar. That would be a horrible precedent to set. |
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