Now THERE’S a surprise…
02-26-2023, 07:55 AM
#2
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I was going to post this article, but you're implying that it's way more definitive than it is. The article makes that clear if you read all of it.
Various federal agencies have issued conflicting assessments, several have come to no conclusions, and in the case of DOE their assessment grade is "low confidence".
Definitely worth further investigation, but nothing conclusive yet.
DOE and FBI have less expertise on the subject than CDC, and far less access to foriegn information than CIA. CDC may have political bias but CIA is still inconclusive.
Various federal agencies have issued conflicting assessments, several have come to no conclusions, and in the case of DOE their assessment grade is "low confidence".
Definitely worth further investigation, but nothing conclusive yet.
DOE and FBI have less expertise on the subject than CDC, and far less access to foriegn information than CIA. CDC may have political bias but CIA is still inconclusive.
02-26-2023, 10:57 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
I was going to post this article, but you're implying that it's way more definitive than it is. The article makes the that clear if you read all of it.
Various federal agencies have issued conflicting assessments, several have come to no conclusions, and in the case of DOE their assessment grade is "low confidence".
Definitely worth further investigation, but nothing conclusive yet.
DOE and FBI have less expertise on the subject than CDC, and far less access to foriegn information than CIA. CDC may have political bias but CIA is still inconclusive.
Various federal agencies have issued conflicting assessments, several have come to no conclusions, and in the case of DOE their assessment grade is "low confidence".
Definitely worth further investigation, but nothing conclusive yet.
DOE and FBI have less expertise on the subject than CDC, and far less access to foriegn information than CIA. CDC may have political bias but CIA is still inconclusive.
ALL ACCIDENTAL LAB MISHAPS ARE INCONCLUSIVE. They are all based upon the most likely method of a pathogen getting into the public. It is exceedingly unlikely you will ever get actual proof in terms of someone actually admitting they had a lab accident and let something loose. Even if you have DNA (or for some viruses RNA) typing of what they were working on and what got loose, that is still only circumstantial evidence, but given the history of similar mishaps in the past, the likelihood ALWAYS was that this was a lab escape, and the proximity of the Wuhan lab to where the outbreak occurred was from the start highly suspicious. All the propaganda about ‘wet markets’ notwithstanding, the overwhelming likelihood was that this escaped from the lab two blocks away rather than a bat from Laos somehow infected an animal being sold for consumption 1200 miles away, and no trace of similar infections were ever seen before or since.
THESE ESCAPES ARE COMMON:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4128296/
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-flna1c9460425
https://slate.com/technology/2014/04...oratories.html
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...in-a-pandemic/
02-26-2023, 11:43 AM
#4
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And this was at CDC Wuhan was previously known to have inadequate safeguards. For that matter, the Chinese main lab in Beijing let SARS out once or twice as well.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7096887/
02-26-2023, 01:29 PM
#5
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I didn't say it couldn't happen, just that it's not conclusive. They should get as close to the bottom of it as possible.
Also need to figure out the probability that GoF was involved. IMO this thing's persistence across successive variants hints at a higher possibility of that (but not even close to smoking gun).
Both matter so as to guide future protocols.
Also need to figure out the probability that GoF was involved. IMO this thing's persistence across successive variants hints at a higher possibility of that (but not even close to smoking gun).
Both matter so as to guide future protocols.
02-26-2023, 01:38 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
I didn't say it couldn't happen, just that it's not conclusive. They should get as close to the bottom of it as possible.
Also need to figure out the probability that GoF was involved. IMO this thing's persistence across successive variants hints at a higher possibility of that (but not even close to smoking gun).
Both matter so as to guide future protocols.
Also need to figure out the probability that GoF was involved. IMO this thing's persistence across successive variants hints at a higher possibility of that (but not even close to smoking gun).
Both matter so as to guide future protocols.
The “bad few weeks” remark refers to the fact that a trifecta of embarrassing mistakes made by premier U.S. health institutions has been revealed in the past month. First there was the anthrax event. Then long-forgotten vials of what turns out to be viable smallpox virus were found cached in a refrigerator in a U.S. Food and Drug Administration lab on the National Institutes of Health campus in Bethesda, Md. (Only two laboratories, the CDC and one at Novosibirsk, Russia, are authorized to store samples of the highly contagious virus, which was declared eradicated in 1980. All others were supposed to have been rounded up and destroyed decades ago.) Then came word of the H5N1 incident, which went unreported to CDC and presumably USDA leadership for several weeks. “The common feature of these three problems is that they involved human error. And no matter how many palm readers and ventilation systems and redundant whatever you have, you can’t stop human error,” Lipsitch says. “And so it’s directly relevant for the gain-of-function debate because the claim is these labs are somehow exceptionally safe. They may be exceptionally secure, but they’re not exceptionally safe if there are people working in them.”
Lipsitch and likeminded scientists have been having a hard time gaining traction for their arguments, but this incident may change that. There is already talk of more oversight for labs working on dangerous pathogens; on Friday CDC Director Frieden spoke of “coning down” on risky research, saying fewer labs should be working on bad bugs and those that do should use the least dangerous ways to do the work.
There is already some oversight of gain-of-function work—but only if it is done with U.S. government funding. Such work must be first approved by the NIH. Work done in private labs, or in other countries without U.S. funding, does not have to go through that hoop. (Chinese scientists are also doing flu gain-of-function research.) Moreover, a group that was asked to do prepublication scrutiny of two of the first gain-of-function studies, the National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity (NSABB), has not met since 2012 when, under pressure, it backed off its insistence that the papers should be published in redacted form.
Lipsitch and likeminded scientists have been having a hard time gaining traction for their arguments, but this incident may change that. There is already talk of more oversight for labs working on dangerous pathogens; on Friday CDC Director Frieden spoke of “coning down” on risky research, saying fewer labs should be working on bad bugs and those that do should use the least dangerous ways to do the work.
There is already some oversight of gain-of-function work—but only if it is done with U.S. government funding. Such work must be first approved by the NIH. Work done in private labs, or in other countries without U.S. funding, does not have to go through that hoop. (Chinese scientists are also doing flu gain-of-function research.) Moreover, a group that was asked to do prepublication scrutiny of two of the first gain-of-function studies, the National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity (NSABB), has not met since 2012 when, under pressure, it backed off its insistence that the papers should be published in redacted form.
02-27-2023, 04:21 AM
#7
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It’s going to turn out that the common sense people were right all along! Mask are ineffective, COVID was not that big of a threat to the majority of the population, the ”vaccine” new definition is not totally safe and tested and drum roll it probably escaped from a certain lab people were right.
The amout of revisionist history of this pandemic is staggering.
The amout of revisionist history of this pandemic is staggering.
02-27-2023, 09:45 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by HIFLYR
It’s going to turn out that the common sense people were right all along! Mask are ineffective, COVID was not that big of a threat to the majority of the population, the ”vaccine” new definition is not totally safe and tested and drum roll it probably escaped from a certain lab people were right.
The amout of revisionist history of this pandemic is staggering.
The amout of revisionist history of this pandemic is staggering.
”The timeframe from conspiracy theory to fact is 3-6 months”
02-27-2023, 10:42 AM
#9
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It's a virus that was discovered in the same place where they were doing viral experiments on gain of function research. Conveniently it supposedly came from a wet market down the road from the same research laboratory. If you watch anything but CNN and MSNBC, several lab workers became ill with the same symptoms as the rest of the world before the rest of the world knew about Covid.
Jesus Christ, put 2 and 2 together.
the score is cospiracy theorists 120
Fauci fans 0
Anybody who still believes it was natural, masks worked or the vaccine stopped the spread is just a true moron and shouldn't be flying planes.
Remember the movie "Remember the Titans"? The little girl in that movie, yeah her brother just died with an enlarged heart. Oh, and a 31 yr old former Met pitcher just died of a heart attack. Damar Hamilton of the B. Bills, yup, won't discuss his heart failure in front of millions of MNF viewers.
Jesus Christ, put 2 and 2 together.
the score is cospiracy theorists 120
Fauci fans 0
Anybody who still believes it was natural, masks worked or the vaccine stopped the spread is just a true moron and shouldn't be flying planes.
Remember the movie "Remember the Titans"? The little girl in that movie, yeah her brother just died with an enlarged heart. Oh, and a 31 yr old former Met pitcher just died of a heart attack. Damar Hamilton of the B. Bills, yup, won't discuss his heart failure in front of millions of MNF viewers.
02-28-2023, 09:17 AM
#10
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Too good to pass up:
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ab-leak-story/
It’s fine to say everything is possible - it generally is - but generally Occam’s razor says the most likely thing is really the most likely. One estimate of REPORTED lab breaches in BSL-3 labs runs to 0.2 occurrences per year and while one woukd HOPE BSL-4 labs would be better, documented breaches in their labs are certainly not uncommon. The USAMRIID BSL-3 and BSL-4 labs at Ft Derrick MD had their work curtailed for over half a year a few years ago because of problems with their physical plant and sterilization procedures:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...t-detrick.html
Skepticism of official accounts around COVID and outright conspiracy theories have been intermingled almost since the pandemic began.
The skeptics will emphasize how the lab leak theory was once marginalized and derided — only to gain credence over time. They will also note, as TV host Jon Stewart did in 2021, that the conventional wisdom once seemed to overrun common sense.
During an appearance on CBS’s “Late Show” with Stephen Colbert in June 2021, Stewart drew a comparison between the situation in Wuhan — which has several key labs, including the Wuhan Institute of Virology — to an American city synonymous with chocolate.
“‘Oh, my God, there’s been an outbreak of chocolaty goodness near Hershey, Pa. What do you think happened?’” Stewart said. “Like, ‘Oh I don’t know, maybe a steam shovel mated with a cocoa bean?’ Or it’s the [expletive] chocolate factory! Maybe that’s it?”
The skeptics will emphasize how the lab leak theory was once marginalized and derided — only to gain credence over time. They will also note, as TV host Jon Stewart did in 2021, that the conventional wisdom once seemed to overrun common sense.
During an appearance on CBS’s “Late Show” with Stephen Colbert in June 2021, Stewart drew a comparison between the situation in Wuhan — which has several key labs, including the Wuhan Institute of Virology — to an American city synonymous with chocolate.
“‘Oh, my God, there’s been an outbreak of chocolaty goodness near Hershey, Pa. What do you think happened?’” Stewart said. “Like, ‘Oh I don’t know, maybe a steam shovel mated with a cocoa bean?’ Or it’s the [expletive] chocolate factory! Maybe that’s it?”
https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...ab-leak-story/
It’s fine to say everything is possible - it generally is - but generally Occam’s razor says the most likely thing is really the most likely. One estimate of REPORTED lab breaches in BSL-3 labs runs to 0.2 occurrences per year and while one woukd HOPE BSL-4 labs would be better, documented breaches in their labs are certainly not uncommon. The USAMRIID BSL-3 and BSL-4 labs at Ft Derrick MD had their work curtailed for over half a year a few years ago because of problems with their physical plant and sterilization procedures:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...t-detrick.html
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