And if you take the argument to the other extreme...

This is a built in cost reduction during a loss, which makes it easier to recover to a profit. If we were ever to go through another bankruptcy and have profit sharing, the carrot would have to be more PS not just getting some back.

 

The airline is built tough for huge profits. The JV's are raking in the cash. Don't sound so beaten. Don't give up. It would be stupid to think that way right now. Huge profits are forecasted for many years. Why trade a huge benefit for something we'd see limited return on and only for a year or two? Didn't you enjoy your industry leading pay + industry leading profit sharing last year?

I did. Don't be scared.

Tail

 

Ok, you've convinced me. We are sustainably at the $6Bish level. I would never trade even in a down year. (though I don't think a down year is really a possibility in the foreseeable future)

We are on the same page. My argument was for retaining PS but a little TIC.

 

Not for pay. But if they want to talk PS, we say how much scope are they willing to give up (to us) for it, and BTW its going to be expensive.

 

So we can grieve it when that doesn't happen, no thanks. If we do anything well it's give scope and settle for little. My settlement check wasn't anywhere near the amount of my profit sharing check.

 

.
So KDTW has like 76 "A" gates. So 38 gates had JV partners? Yeah, sure.

Ever wonder why so few pilots actually ever view forums?

Probably because there are so many BS fact-free posts like yours.

.

 

While that post was talking more about international outsourcing, let's examine this for a moment on a grander outsourcing scale since you think it's far-fetched for half the gates to be non-DL.

There 62 gates at terminal A.

12 of them can handle an international arrival.

Air France
Virgin Atlantic
AeroMexico (MEX)
AeroMexico (MTY, DL/DTW is losing that route to them in the near future)

The remaining 50 gates at terminal A are often populated with CRJs and EMBs. There can easily be eight of them at once on each inner alleyway, for a total of ~16 plus the possible four aforementioned JV flights on the other side for a total of 20.

20 / 62 = 32% outsourced

But that is if every other gate of the remaining 42 is occupied by a DL mainline jet.

If a third total were open, or about 20, then 20/42 is very close to half of the jets parked at terminal A being outsourced/JV metal.

Oh, and there's the entire B/C terminal which is of course 100% outsourced flying.

Less than half of DTW departures the past few years have been mainline. Good to see it creeping back up on the small aircraft end of the spectrum, but the JV international stuff is growing at the other end of it.

 

That route was always flown by Compass on a E175. Now Delta mainline flies it on an A319. The flight schedule only goes out to April 2018 but it is Delta mainline the whole time.

 

Agreed, which is why we need strict penalties for non compliance. In the interim, we need to aggressively pursue injunctions to cease any non compliant flying. In any case, worshipping PS as greater than scope because of how weakly we settled the AF grievance, carried to its logical conclusion, would mean that we should trade existing scope for more PS because PS is almighty and scope is weak. That is simply not the case. If you got a penny from PS its only because you had a job because of scope in the firs place to be on the list to get the PS.

Scope > PS. All day, every day.

 

Wait until the next round of negotiations. They are planning on coming hard to the paint for large RJ scope relief, and at least some in our ranks are in favor of it (for whatever little cookie they get in return) and think we can be dragged along into accepting it.