forgot to bid

Nobody bought the C-Series (see orders)
Bombardier needed money (see newspapers)
Quebec doesn't know how to play the game (says UK)
737 sucks (says everyone)
Boeing sucks (see above)
We should have ordered the Neos a long time ago (see below)
We ordered C Series (see above)
Boeing trips up Bombardier (easy)
Delta orders Neos (BTFO Boeing)
C Series has a trim switch (WTH)

BobZ

You left out ab buying into the c series.

forgot to bid

Nobody bought the C-Series (see orders)
Bombardier needed money (see newspapers)
Quebec doesn't know how to play the game (says UK)
737 sucks (says everyone)
Boeing sucks (see above)
We should have ordered the Neos a long time ago (see below)
We ordered C Series (see above)
Boeing trips up Bombardier (easy)
Airbus acquires C Series (for like, a dollar)
France reacquires it's western Capital of Mobile (no fight required)
Delta orders Neos (BTFO Boeing)
C Series has a trim switch (WTH)

BobZ

Delta has always been a bit contrarian in equipment buys.
Where there have been alternative airframes for the need Delta has always engaged in some horse trading.
And the relationship with boeing over that history probably would never be defined as cozy.
Delta flew douglas and convairs. Was the dc9 launch customer. I think the 72 only arrived at delta via the NE integration....delta has never been an airline to say 'gee, we need some new planes...lets hurry over to the boeing store and see whats on the shelf?'
So while this maybe entertaining to watch its not typically unusual.

BeatNavy

I’ll post to PNW Boeing fanboy what i posted in the JB thread.

It isn’t quite as simple as you make it sound. Here’s a good history on the fight against the level playing field by Boeing and Airbus. It doesn’t mention some current items of relevance, like the ExIm stuff, but I’m sure PNW is already aware but just doesn’t want to acknowledge it.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr...-subsidy-wars/

Boeing has received subsidies before which enabled them to enter and eventually dominate the airliner manufacturing market. They also rely on subsidized airlines to purchase their aircraft. As mentioned above, they also sell subsidized aircraft to airlines that take US jobs. They also kill off competitors (like what they are trying to do now) and make “new” 60 year old airplanes because instead of innovating, they stifle innovative competition. In this business, one can’t simply enter the market with a good idea...even a company like bombardier. It’s an impossible task to fight this airliner duopoly. I’m assuming you wish the big 3 auto companies shouldn’t have been bailed out and we should all be driving Toyotas?

Once the production of the c series increases, Canada will get paid back. It’s not supposed to be endless corporate welfare like ME3. Boeing is crying and pitching a fit like my 2 year old because Bombardier got bailed out for the production of one aircraft that will transform their business. ME3’s whole business model revolves around subsidies, but Boeing doesn’t mind selling to them. Airbus required subsidies to become a player back in the day. Boeing fought it, ultimately coming to a truce, as Boeing’s subsidies thru other programs were brought to light (according to that brookings article).

Lastly, Boeing outsources a lot of its manufacturing overseas. In fact I think more of the c series is made in the USA than is the 787, and certainly will be once Mobile is up and running. And every manufacturer gives significant discounts, especially at the beginning of production, trying to win initial orders. If I recall, the 787 just started to become profitable this year. That means they’ve been selling at a loss this whole time (and I think taking tax write offs for those losses). Boeing was able to get money/financing because they are bigger, have higher revenue and money from other buckets, and are an aerospace/defense giant. Bombardier ran out of money, had no more financing options, and took a loan from their government. Not a huge difference. At the end of the day bombardier makes a good product (better than any narrowbody that boeing makes) that will eventually be profitable. I fail to see how bombardier did anything remotely close to warranting a 300% tariff. I hope Delta continues to become a mostly airbus fleet, foreign military and airline Boeing sales decline, and boeing eventually loses this war. I’d love to see bombardier make a CS500/700 that dominates their 737. I used to be a huge Boeing fan. But eff them now.

full of luv

By definition Delta did pay “market” rate for them. That’s what the market would bare.

What you want is Delta to cover all of the programs development costs which is obviously above “market” rates.

All airlines had an opportunity to deal with Bombardier but only Delta in the US agreed to.

NotMrNiceGuy

Latest and greatest...

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1EE2J4

Fredturbo

Bombardier CEO to speak on CNBC at 0730 this am. Should be interesting...

badflaps

I think Mr. W got into it with Bill B. back in the duster days.

tunes

This is also the same guy that claimed on FB that he had “the best HR interview Delta has ever seen”, yet they still told him TBNT at the end of the day.