Delta Q1 results
04-13-2018, 10:22 AM
#81
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Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,935
Originally Posted by JamesBond
No argument whatsoever on my part. I was just making the point that if management wants PS to go away, the cost will be way to yuge for them to seriously consider. It is great leverage for us.
04-13-2018, 11:18 AM
#82
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Posts: 10,126
Originally Posted by sailingfun
I don’t know what is so hard about basic math and accounting. Not once have I said we are getting a dime less. In fact I said our payout is unchanged. What I did say was that 183 million this year may not pay us more than 151 million last year. We will get a smaller percentage of the pot.
To make it as simple as possible. Company A offers profit sharing to all employees. Half the employees are on a negotiated plan. Half are not. The plan is the same for both. In 2016 the profit sharing pays 1 million dollars. Each group of employees gets 500,000 dollars from the 1 million dollar pool. In 2017 the company announces a 50% reduction in profit sharing for the non contract employees. Profits stay the same. The pool will now only be 750,000. 500 to the union employees and 250 to the non union. In 2018 the company restores the profit sharing back to 2016 levels. With the same profit the pool will once again increase to 1 million dollars. The union side is however not going to see a dime more than they did with the pool at 750,000.
In our case 183 million in the pool does not mean more cash to the pilots than 151 million and could actually be less. It all depends on how much additional funding the company had to put into the pool for the increase in profit sharing to the non contract employees.
Edit: Seeing the actual profit numbers posted above our profit sharing will be 15% less for the first quarter this year than last year assuming the numbers are correct.
To make it as simple as possible. Company A offers profit sharing to all employees. Half the employees are on a negotiated plan. Half are not. The plan is the same for both. In 2016 the profit sharing pays 1 million dollars. Each group of employees gets 500,000 dollars from the 1 million dollar pool. In 2017 the company announces a 50% reduction in profit sharing for the non contract employees. Profits stay the same. The pool will now only be 750,000. 500 to the union employees and 250 to the non union. In 2018 the company restores the profit sharing back to 2016 levels. With the same profit the pool will once again increase to 1 million dollars. The union side is however not going to see a dime more than they did with the pool at 750,000.
In our case 183 million in the pool does not mean more cash to the pilots than 151 million and could actually be less. It all depends on how much additional funding the company had to put into the pool for the increase in profit sharing to the non contract employees.
Edit: Seeing the actual profit numbers posted above our profit sharing will be 15% less for the first quarter this year than last year assuming the numbers are correct.
I understand you are trying to peal the onion on Q1 numbers to see if it will be more or less than last year but that is in no way dependent upon what anyone else gets.
I think we are having issues of perspective not facts. I could be wrong about that though.
04-13-2018, 12:02 PM
#83
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,354
Originally Posted by notEnuf
What we will get is what we will get regardless of what any other group or individual(s) gets. The YOY % comparison will fluctuate because of inclusion or exclusion of non-cons but the dollars you receive are only dependent on profit. The portion pilots get relative to everyone else may be less because of their new formula but it has no impact on the amount of your next profit sharing check.
I understand you are trying to peal the onion on Q1 numbers to see if it will be more or less than last year but that is in no way dependent upon what anyone else gets.
I think we are having issues of perspective not facts. I could be wrong about that though.
I understand you are trying to peal the onion on Q1 numbers to see if it will be more or less than last year but that is in no way dependent upon what anyone else gets.
I think we are having issues of perspective not facts. I could be wrong about that though.
My initial post on the subject simply stated the pilots year over year accrual would be down. It appears that is true despite 183 million in PS set aside verses 151 million in 2017.
04-13-2018, 12:37 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
You just said what I have said throughout this post yet people keep saying it’s not true.
My initial post on the subject simply stated the pilots year over year accrual would be down. It appears that is true despite 183 million in PS set aside verses 151 million in 2017.
My initial post on the subject simply stated the pilots year over year accrual would be down. It appears that is true despite 183 million in PS set aside verses 151 million in 2017.
That seems to jive with the targets management set for themselves regarding bonuses.
MIP
6. The Performance Measures—Threshold, Target and Maximum Payout Levels. The Target MIP Award and the amounts paid in connection with target levels of Absolute Financial, Relative Financial, Operational, Leadership Effectiveness and Individual Performances, are based on the achievement of the target performance level with respect to each applicable performance measure (except that Absolute Financial Performance also requires a payout under the Profit Sharing Program for 2018). A Participant’s actual MIP Award may be greater or less than the target amount based on whether performance under one or more of the performance measures applicable to the Participant exceeds or is below target performance, subject to Section 4(c). This is explained in more detail below.
(a) Absolute Financial Performance Measure. The Absolute Financial Performance measure for 2018 is based on Delta’s Pre-Tax Income (as defined below). The following table describes the performance ranges and award payout levels for 2018 Absolute Financial Performance, subject to Section 4(c):
Threshold/Target/Maximum
% of Target Absolute Financial Performance Measure Paid
50%/100%/200%
Required 2018 Pre-Tax Income
$6,504 Million/$7,869 Million/$8,794 Million
Payouts will be straight-line interpolated when Pre-Tax Income results fall above Threshold and below Target or above Target and below Maximum.
“Pre-Tax Income” will be the amount of Pre-Tax Income, if any, determined under the Profit Sharing Program for 2018.
04-13-2018, 02:54 PM
#87
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,677
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
Judging by this thread you are in a distinct minority. The pilot group has spoken. More than once on this subject.
Judging by this thread we have nothing to fear.
04-13-2018, 03:15 PM
#88
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,919
Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley
There is no scenario in the immediate future where any concession in PS will happen. Why the discussion?
Agreed, but to answer your question it is because a pilot earlier in thread said he would like to monetize PS.
Scoop
04-14-2018, 10:32 AM
#90
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by IPAs
This line of thinking is the one and only area where I could imagine agreeing to a profit share reduction. Never for payrates.
We are about to learn our lesson on how many steps ahead the company is on us with virtual basing, unless that’s killed. Right as the test period ends we open negotiations. Think that is a coincidence?
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