$900K 350 Captains
05-30-2018, 04:09 PM
#102
Gets Everyday Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Relaxed
Posts: 6,968
Originally Posted by tomgoodman
A growing hazard, even worse than cosmic rays: The FAA-recommended limit for an aircrew member over a five-year average is 20 microannoyances (m
) per year with no more than 50 m in a single year. Disgruntometers will be issued to all pilots and F/As. 
) per year with no more than 50 m in a single year. Disgruntometers will be issued to all pilots and F/As.
05-30-2018, 11:04 PM
#103
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by JamesBond
First of all, when you continually refer to "raising 717s to 777 rates" or "dropping 777 rates to 737 rates" it indicates a complete non understanding of the term "longevity". So arguing the point is.. well.. pointless. But if you insist, why don't you tell me how many 717 pilots can be making 777 rates as it stands right now. And do I then need to explain the irrelevance of that question/answer? I had discussed this ad nauseum on other forums and frankly I don't really want to start it over again. I studied the issue right after the NWA merger and wrote a paper on it. Did the math and everything. The career earning potential in a longevity system versus the insanity we now have is eye watering. And what I do know is that as long as we stick to 1950s methodology of payment, we will always be divided along big/small, domestic/international. We will always be hostage to what management wants to buy or not buy in terms of airframes. And most importantly, we will always have merger issues as long as it exists. I have 7 years left, so I am not affected one way or the other, but continuing along the same path will always yield the same result.
05-31-2018, 01:04 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 429
Originally Posted by JamesBond
First of all, when you continually refer to "raising 717s to 777 rates" or "dropping 777 rates to 737 rates" it indicates a complete non understanding of the term "longevity". So arguing the point is.. well.. pointless. But if you insist, why don't you tell me how many 717 pilots can be making 777 rates as it stands right now. And do I then need to explain the irrelevance of that question/answer? I had discussed this ad nauseum on other forums and frankly I don't really want to start it over again. I studied the issue right after the NWA merger and wrote a paper on it. Did the math and everything. The career earning potential in a longevity system versus the insanity we now have is eye watering. And what I do know is that as long as we stick to 1950s methodology of payment, we will always be divided along big/small, domestic/international. We will always be hostage to what management wants to buy or not buy in terms of airframes. And most importantly, we will always have merger issues as long as it exists. I have 7 years left, so I am not affected one way or the other, but continuing along the same path will always yield the same result.
You can't vastly increases everyone's earning potential without putting more $ in the pot to begin with. De-linking the big/small dom/intl has potential pitfalls you are ignoring. OFG
05-31-2018, 05:13 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Actually (like Plouffe to give you context, no offense intended... just that's where it is), I've never seen you actually expand upon a practical path to longevity pay.
Oh, and as to the Plouffe comparison, there are very few that have the same fervor that he has, but there are quite a few from both pre-sides of the merger that believe what I believe about longevity pay.
06-05-2018, 01:33 PM
#106
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by JamesBond
First of all, when you continually refer to "raising 717s to 777 rates" or "dropping 777 rates to 737 rates" it indicates a complete non understanding of the term "longevity". So arguing the point is.. well.. pointless. But if you insist, why don't you tell me how many 717 pilots can be making 777 rates as it stands right now. And do I then need to explain the irrelevance of that question/answer? I had discussed this ad nauseum on other forums and frankly I don't really want to start it over again. I studied the issue right after the NWA merger and wrote a paper on it. Did the math and everything. The career earning potential in a longevity system versus the insanity we now have is eye watering. And what I do know is that as long as we stick to 1950s methodology of payment, we will always be divided along big/small, domestic/international. We will always be hostage to what management wants to buy or not buy in terms of airframes. And most importantly, we will always have merger issues as long as it exists. I have 7 years left, so I am not affected one way or the other, but continuing along the same path will always yield the same result.
06-06-2018, 08:19 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Originally Posted by bbhnpd
The minute you drive a stake in the ground saying that productivity doesn't matter (longevity vs productivity), management will jump for joy as they start to ratchet down your pilot compensation. It won't be overnight, but they will do it.
06-06-2018, 09:53 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by JamesBond
The career earning potential in a longevity system versus the insanity we now have is eye watering.
And I'm well aware of the particulars of relative seniority bubbles/microclimates from the existing system and how that effects bidding. The same would be true of LBP, only its implementation would be different, so we'd have some shock churn best case and outright revolt worst case, if we didn't let people out of their freezes.
I'm just not seeing this as the free lunch you're implying. The fact that you won't even discuss how it would be implemented (if it takes a 50 page white paper spreadsheet just to illustrate your basic points then that kinds proves how unworkable it it) that is very telling.
06-06-2018, 10:57 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,280
Originally Posted by JamesBond
And they don't do that now? I hear the continual whining about how we don't have a ton of widebody airplanes and that we are getting all these C Series airplanes and small NB airplanes yet we have to stand by the old tried and true of bigger pays more. Good luck with that being effective getting more pay over a career. You STILL have to negotiate for higher rates, and management will STILL try to get you to work for less.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
