Recall?
 

So there are 3 groups:

1. LDAL folks who don’t want to fight for more and are happy with just keeping things the way they are.

2. LNWA folks who are “cobra”....Ready to strike at anything.

3. Moderates who understand things and are between the other two groups.

Why the special MEC meeting? Why are Council 44 reps going nuts?

How about some communications?

I’m guessing they are going to terminate the SIL LOA. And yes, they are nuts....

Our union is divided big time. Most of our pilot group falls in the middle. The two extreme groups fighting over the union are exactly what the company loves to see going into negotiations. Not good. The council 44 reps can’t even agree to put out joint communications. How are they going to agree to anything?

Unfortunately, we have always had and probably always will have a very screwed up union with pathetic officers who push their own agendas instead of the line pilots general opinions.

What are you referencing? I must have deleted an email without reading it.

Probably the roar.

This should read, LDAL that historically have used proactive engagement, win-win style negotiations, some give/some take type of engagement that has propelled this pilot group to the forefront of the industry, helping the company make billions, enabling our pilots to lead the pack, enabling morale to be high, while still holding management accountable for their actions and standing tough when necessary.

Vs.

Old school NWA style of fighting for everything, drawing lines in the sand, never leading the industry in anything, making their own pilot miserable, and morale being in the gutter.

But hey, shutting the VB LOA, SIL LOA, antagonistic comms, etc are certainly worthy of a few chest bumps.

Comparing the 2 pre-merger contracts, I'll take the LDAL style because, well ... results matter.

Chest-thumping only goes so far.


(What does the "L" represent again?")

Anyone remember the Donatelli turd? Yeah... I do. That was your LDAL style of “perfection” that got shot down like an Iraqi MiG. Then it was NWA style negotiations with balls that got us the contract we are on... including full retro AND NO change to profit sharing. Did you forget? Or were you not here yet?

Tail

If we had followed your LDAL style of “roll over and take it” we’d be under that Donatelli turd with massive concessions over where we are today.

No man. Your LDAL argument just got torpedo’d.

Tail

As far as your first paragraph goes I disagree......like a marriage gone bad, it may have been give and take in the beginning when the relationship was new but over the years, one party started taking advantage of the other (take, take, take with no give). I would much prefer the marriage to continue but that will require the company to give more to maintain the relationship. I don’t foresee this happening.

Were you former NW? I’m not. But maybe there does need to be a more definitive line between the Company and the Union.

Everything you state (except Dalpa hasn’t shutdown SIL LOA yet) is contractually valid. As in no violation of the contract by the union. Can you say the same thing about the Company or do I have to go back and list all the recent Company violations. (plural)

Denny

Your both only half correct. The LDAL group brought us the turd of TA-1 - the Pilots wisely rejected it. Then we got a much better TA-2. The hardcore LNW types wanted us to reject it - the Pilots wisely passed it.


Bottom line - LDAL group was too acquiescing. The LNW group was too intransigent. Despite that the Pilot group got it right both times. :)



Scoop

20 pages minimum.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/image...lt/popcorn.gif

Are you implying that TA2 was a result of NWA negotiations?? I think not.

Or were you not here yet..TIC 😊...???

this x 1000...we'd also have a terrible AM JV agreement.

What are some examples of this?

narrator: there weren't any

As with almost all things in life, moderation is the key to success. Pendulum swings generally have less benefit to the group in my experience.

Agreed. Unfortunately, we have gone from the mentality that got us TA1 to almost a DPA like one on the MEC now. The pendulum has swung way past moderation.

Filed grievance and won money and jobs for Force majeur 2 pilots company tried to furlough illegitimately.

Donatelli also brought us the ADG of 5.15 a day which applies to reserves, 30 hr layovers, dh only duty periods and redeyes, NONE of which applied before (two day trips that paid reserves four hours anyone?). You should take a look at a ten year old bid package if you can find one. The trip values sucked.

TA1 was a failure but Donatelli did bring us real value prior to that, only no one remembers. TA2 was brought to you by John Malone, who understands the difference between false tough a la NWA-style perpetual middle fingers (which never yields anything except "likes" on social media) and the times to truly fight hard with pre-established support from the line pilots.

Inventing fake "outrage" via the crisis of the week ain't the way.

FAR 117 brought 30 hour layovers...

We had them long before FAR 117. Admittedly fewer but they were there...and paid far less than they do now.

i'll give you the 5:15 for it...but i'm guessing they existed before for cities that only had 1-2x daily service where you couldn't have enough rest to come in night prior and take the first flight out.....i wasn't here before 117 but i'm guessing they didnt exist in cities like RDU where they do now because the company uses it as a rest tool--required by 117 where before they didnt have a choice.

LOL......it read just fine.

Have a little self respect. The company is blatantly violating the contract. Stand up for yourself as well as our other pilots.

The appeasement mentality is gone, if only 44 would see that, we could actually become united. They just keep fighting to keep Moakism alive.

The MEC is as united as I’ve ever seen in 30 plus years.

Only a Scott and Sam are on the outside. The last gasp of management representatives.

The nominating ballots for the C44 election were mailed today.

Please do your part and fill them out.

I support :

Captains

Brent Allen
Derek Archer

First Officers

Jimmy Johnson
Jon Payne

I am not in C44 and my opinion cause some tears, but this election will seal the success of C2019. Atlanta is extremely powerful. With these four reps we are assured of a home run for our next contract.

It is critical that you vote if you are an Atlanta pilot.

Jerry Fielding

These whiners want us to forget they were crying and begging to sell TA1.

“We will never get another penny!”

They almost cost us all hundreds of millions.

You’re welcome black shirt yes voters.

In the end.....during the most powerful negotiating period in history....we still came up with an agreement that was lackluster. Good job everyone. Keep up the good work!

Stop comparing Johnson's. Unity is the objective.

I love it! I’m only worried if Jimmy Johnson gets back in that the flower fund will become depleted!

With the way the industry is right now, we shouldn’t be giving up ANYTHING! If it takes a couple years (or more) to get a better contract than what we have, then so be it!

you should tell curly et all that...

Spot on.....

"then so be it!"
The last time I heard that was from Ron Allen's mouth and it wasn't good then either.

I don't see C44 reps coming on here and bashing you or reps from other councils.

You're completely allowed to have your own opinion of C44 reps, but I don't like my dues dollars paying for your FPL when you use social media to shape the elected reps and tell us who to vote for. I'd feel the same way if this was for any other council's reps.

I really hope we can restore some class and civility to ALPA soon. Set the tone MEC!!!

Thanks for telling everyone who not to vote for haha.

gzsg is no longer doing ALPA work.

I agree we came up with less on TA2 than we should. But think of where we’d be if we accepted donatelli’s Turd? We still left money out there. And now we are rolling over with all this JV and scheduling stuff. We get fired if we break the rules. The MEC just doesn’t seem to be strong enough to me currently while the Company fleeces us via JV and other issues now.

Haha......He is exactly right. Luckily, the 44 Captain reps are hamstrung at this point anyhow.

I’m not on FPL. Just a line pilot.